Killer&Griller
Contributor
I got to ask, what brand did was recommended to you and what was the price?
There is no way the the instructor said buy a computer and didn't give a pitch.........
Tech Computer advice.
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I got to ask, what brand did was recommended to you and what was the price?
There is no way the the instructor said buy a computer and didn't give a pitch.........
My tech instructor recommended we get a good technical diving computer as well. He didn't pitch a brand to me, because he's not working for anyone but himself. He suggested I get a Shearwater or VR computer (as I also had rebreathers in mind at the time I did my tech training), but said, there are several good tech diving computers out there, and getting one isn't a bad idea at all.
Recommending that a technical diver get a tech computer is one thing, requiring one for what is often "the" introductory tech course is a bit much and turns a $400 course into a $900 to $2000 course. Asking a potential technical diver to make that kind of committment before even hitting the water in their first tech class is asking a lot. Asking it prior to Trimix, Full Cave or a CCR class would be a different issue entirely.
dschonbrun
Contributor
I have a suspicion that by "3 gas" the instructor means three different Nitrox mixes... Back Gas, Rich Deco, Lean Deco. I doubt they would require a trimix computer in a course that doesn't teach trimix.
The Oceanic Atom 2.0 is a 3 gas computer. While they don't advertise that it's a "deco computer" - gas 2 and gas 3 allow for nitrox mixtures up to 99% o2.
I've used it for deco - for non-trimix dives. It provides a very good profile.
I've used it for deco - for non-trimix dives. It provides a very good profile.
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Learned colleagues,
Snake has done a good job of not name dropping, and I appreciate his candor, but a spade is a spade and I am the instructor in question.
Technical divers use either tables, computers or both. The more you use them, the more you learn. Although it would be far easier for me to run the class just using tables (which I have done), I use both because I want to prepare the student for the real world, and the dive computer is a powerful tool.
I have taught these courses in the past allowing computers, but without the computer requirement, however that experience has shown me a distinct advantage to the student using both tables and computers during the course.
I do not instruct for a living, I do it because I like it. I do not pass students simply because they paid me, and I screen applicants to try to make sure we are a good fit. I do not sell dive gear, or represent any equipment manufacturer.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however as an instructor I can make any reasonable requirement I wish that will, in my opinion, benefit the student.
This is exactly what I wrote in the email to Snake, and why he was looking for a computer not a bunch of zealots:
Mxxxx,
IMHO, I believe that divers who are making dives that include wreck penetration, gas switches, and multiple stage decompression, needs a quality technical diving computer. In the class, we will be using 3 gases, and we will be using tables as well. The Shearwater and VRx are only suggestions, and there are a couple of other computers that will get the job done if you prefer. If you are thinking of going on to Trimix, the more experience you get on your computer the better prepared you will be.
You are right, dont get an Epic (I dont actually know what an Epic is, but if I have not heard of it then it is probably not suitable) or any other computer that you will have to replace. That is specifically why we require a proper computer with upgradable software, like the VRx or Shearwater.
Again, IMHO, if you have to postpone either the computer or the class, I would postpone the class.
Cheers
JC
Snake has done a good job of not name dropping, and I appreciate his candor, but a spade is a spade and I am the instructor in question.
Technical divers use either tables, computers or both. The more you use them, the more you learn. Although it would be far easier for me to run the class just using tables (which I have done), I use both because I want to prepare the student for the real world, and the dive computer is a powerful tool.
I have taught these courses in the past allowing computers, but without the computer requirement, however that experience has shown me a distinct advantage to the student using both tables and computers during the course.
I do not instruct for a living, I do it because I like it. I do not pass students simply because they paid me, and I screen applicants to try to make sure we are a good fit. I do not sell dive gear, or represent any equipment manufacturer.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however as an instructor I can make any reasonable requirement I wish that will, in my opinion, benefit the student.
This is exactly what I wrote in the email to Snake, and why he was looking for a computer not a bunch of zealots:
Mxxxx,
IMHO, I believe that divers who are making dives that include wreck penetration, gas switches, and multiple stage decompression, needs a quality technical diving computer. In the class, we will be using 3 gases, and we will be using tables as well. The Shearwater and VRx are only suggestions, and there are a couple of other computers that will get the job done if you prefer. If you are thinking of going on to Trimix, the more experience you get on your computer the better prepared you will be.
You are right, dont get an Epic (I dont actually know what an Epic is, but if I have not heard of it then it is probably not suitable) or any other computer that you will have to replace. That is specifically why we require a proper computer with upgradable software, like the VRx or Shearwater.
Again, IMHO, if you have to postpone either the computer or the class, I would postpone the class.
Cheers
JC
Even though you screen your students, SD still came away wondering if he could use a 3 mix nitrox computer, or if buying an expensive tech computer was a part of doing busyness if you wanted to do a tech course. So as one of the zealots, I pointed out that there was a difference between a 3 mix nitrox computer he asked about & a quality tek dive computer required on the list down4fun supplied. I went on to ask this...
I also wonder why they require a 3 gas computer when they're setting up for 2 gas dives.
Quote:
Regulators – Bring two quality regulators for your bottom gas, plus an additional Oxygen clean Nitrox regulator for your deco gas. You will need one pressure gauge on one of the backmount regs, and one SPG on the Nitrox reg. In addition, you will need a Regulator “Necklace” or lanyard for your secondary backmount regulator.
This doesn't seem to gel with this statement "we will be using 3 gases" in your email to snake. Care to clarify this for me.
I'll also point out that it is obvious now that SD contacted you & discovered that a 3 mix nitrox computer wasn't on, quite early in the thread. However at no point did he come back here & say that was the case. He just started asking about the Shearwater instead. As he didn't tell the whole story, I think he got all the zealots he deserved.
I also wonder why they require a 3 gas computer when they're setting up for 2 gas dives.
Quote:
Regulators – Bring two quality regulators for your bottom gas, plus an additional Oxygen clean Nitrox regulator for your deco gas. You will need one pressure gauge on one of the backmount regs, and one SPG on the Nitrox reg. In addition, you will need a Regulator “Necklace” or lanyard for your secondary backmount regulator.
This doesn't seem to gel with this statement "we will be using 3 gases" in your email to snake. Care to clarify this for me.
I'll also point out that it is obvious now that SD contacted you & discovered that a 3 mix nitrox computer wasn't on, quite early in the thread. However at no point did he come back here & say that was the case. He just started asking about the Shearwater instead. As he didn't tell the whole story, I think he got all the zealots he deserved.
Atomic_Diver
Scubaboard Enthusiast
I would reccomend the Dive Rite Trio
fire_diver
Contributor
John,
Since you are the instructor mentioned by the OP, and part of this revolves around you, I have some thoughts for you.
As has been mentioned by others already, this level of class is the START of technical diving. I can see where one of the top quality computers would be a great benefit (OK, absolutely needed) to a rebreather diver, but for open circuit? I would have thought that the basics of deco schedule, bottom timer, and back up computer would be the best AT THIS POINT. Shouldn't new deco divers be spending time practicing propper planning (you know, the old 7 P's)? Practicing maintaining blue-water deco hangs and making gas switches? Maybe I just talked to too many old-timers when I started this path. Do you not think that new tech divers should be practicing the basics first before worrying about programable, trimix capable, multi-thousand dollar computer?
PS, whats the story with Dive Portal DVDs? 1-3 got me through my diving withdrawls for a year in Iraq. Is #4 coming?
Since you are the instructor mentioned by the OP, and part of this revolves around you, I have some thoughts for you.
As has been mentioned by others already, this level of class is the START of technical diving. I can see where one of the top quality computers would be a great benefit (OK, absolutely needed) to a rebreather diver, but for open circuit? I would have thought that the basics of deco schedule, bottom timer, and back up computer would be the best AT THIS POINT. Shouldn't new deco divers be spending time practicing propper planning (you know, the old 7 P's)? Practicing maintaining blue-water deco hangs and making gas switches? Maybe I just talked to too many old-timers when I started this path. Do you not think that new tech divers should be practicing the basics first before worrying about programable, trimix capable, multi-thousand dollar computer?
PS, whats the story with Dive Portal DVDs? 1-3 got me through my diving withdrawls for a year in Iraq. Is #4 coming?
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I painfully read through the entire thread and I disagree with regards to what SD got. I think he was looking for information and got politics. My opinion.
The course is next April. Apparently the equipment list he got from the dive shop is from another course, not the new Advanced Nitrox, Decompression Procedures, Advanced Wreck course we put together. I will check it out, we will change the list, and thanks for pointing it out.
With regards to SD, he specifically mentioned in prior emails to me that he was interested in moving on to Trimix, so I recommended a technical diving computer, and not a 3 gas Nitrox computer, which might otherwise be fine for some students depending on their individual goals.
Cheers
JC
The course is next April. Apparently the equipment list he got from the dive shop is from another course, not the new Advanced Nitrox, Decompression Procedures, Advanced Wreck course we put together. I will check it out, we will change the list, and thanks for pointing it out.
With regards to SD, he specifically mentioned in prior emails to me that he was interested in moving on to Trimix, so I recommended a technical diving computer, and not a 3 gas Nitrox computer, which might otherwise be fine for some students depending on their individual goals.
Cheers
JC
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