Well actually they will. The first instructor I queried accepted this as a legit way to do it. @raftingtiger reported above that he did his Tech40 with single backmount. Its in the PADI equipment guidelines as an option. Lots of solo divers dive with a 5L bailout bottle. The deco dive would involve this setup with the addition of the deco gas. A dive to 40 metres is only going to give about 15 minutes of bottom time to keep the deco obligation around the 10 minute mark. Doesn't really require doubles. Just redundancy.
Tech 40 with a Pony Bottle?
- Thread starter GeoffreyD
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Well actually they will. The first instructor I queried accepted this as a legit way to do it. @raftingtiger reported above that he did his Tech40 with single backmount. Its in the PADI equipment guidelines as an option. Lots of solo divers dive with a 5L bailout bottle. The deco dive would involve this setup with the addition of the deco gas. A dive to 40 metres is only going to give about 15 minutes of bottom time to keep the deco obligation around the 10 minute mark. Doesn't really require doubles. Just redundancy.
sea_otter
Contributor
The best advice I can offer is to consult your instructor. Most will be more than happy to help with gear questions even before you sign up for their class.
One problem with this sort of configuration is that if you have two bottles slung, it's possible to goof and breathe the wrong gas. That can be fatal. As a beginner, you're more likely to make mistakes, so eliminating potentially fatal consequences seems like a good idea. The fact that you're switching in the event of a back gas emergency makes mistakes even more likely.
elgoog
Contributor
This is not the problem. Single backmount with 1 slung bottle is common (definitely for redundant gas).
This is the problem .i.e. 2 slung bottles with a single backmount tank. Tech dives with 2 bottles, regardless of what those are for (deco, stage, whatever) are not "beginner" tech dives - a significant amount of training, practice and additional protocols get added which is outside the scope of foundational deco training. And they're almost certainly done with doubles as well.
This is why. You're unnecessarily adding the possibility of switching to the wrong gas just to get redundancy.
I think that a lot of this has to do with marketing.
People who are not sure they want to get into TEC diving will not want to invest in TEC specific equipment. You can do tec40 in a jacket bcd with the necessary drings if you want. Not recommended, but there it is. If they had to get the doubles, plate, wing, etc, some might not take TEC 40 or any other TEC course.
So for TEC 40 all you need is a 30 cf pony bottle setup and a deco bottle setup.
The instructor manual is full of statements saying that if a diver intends on going further, they should really do TEC 40 with the proper doubles setup that must be used in TEC 45 and 50.
People who are not sure they want to get into TEC diving will not want to invest in TEC specific equipment. You can do tec40 in a jacket bcd with the necessary drings if you want. Not recommended, but there it is. If they had to get the doubles, plate, wing, etc, some might not take TEC 40 or any other TEC course.
So for TEC 40 all you need is a 30 cf pony bottle setup and a deco bottle setup.
The instructor manual is full of statements saying that if a diver intends on going further, they should really do TEC 40 with the proper doubles setup that must be used in TEC 45 and 50.
KevinNM
Contributor
Anyone who is qualified to teach you tech diving can rent you doubles at a reasonable rate. Probably not Extreme Exposure Florida level of reasonable, but for far less than it would cost you to buy a bp&w, doubles wing, doubles tank and two din regs. If they don’t have or can’t procure that kit easily then go somewhere else.
Thanks again for your responses.
@divezonescuba Perhaps it has to do with marketing, but there are people, like me who don't want to do Tech45 etc, who do want to develop the skills taught in the Tech40 course. 40 meters is still within reasonable sport diving depths. I want to learn the gas planning and deco stuff to improve my diving in general. But, I don't want to go to doubles, it just wouldn't be worth the investment for me because I wouldn't use them. I've tried it and didn't enjoy the experience. I might do into a little planned deco on a sports dive with the right buddy, but that's it. Perhaps I should just do the solo diver course. (Not for deco diving).
@elgoog Not sure how diving with single backmount and two stage tanks is going to lead to any more confusion than someone diving sidemount with the extra deco stage which I gather is a common beginner setup for this course. It is still three bottles. Same chance of getting the wrong gas.
@divezonescuba Perhaps it has to do with marketing, but there are people, like me who don't want to do Tech45 etc, who do want to develop the skills taught in the Tech40 course. 40 meters is still within reasonable sport diving depths. I want to learn the gas planning and deco stuff to improve my diving in general. But, I don't want to go to doubles, it just wouldn't be worth the investment for me because I wouldn't use them. I've tried it and didn't enjoy the experience. I might do into a little planned deco on a sports dive with the right buddy, but that's it. Perhaps I should just do the solo diver course. (Not for deco diving).
@elgoog Not sure how diving with single backmount and two stage tanks is going to lead to any more confusion than someone diving sidemount with the extra deco stage which I gather is a common beginner setup for this course. It is still three bottles. Same chance of getting the wrong gas.
elgoog
Contributor
The way your regs are setup and accessible to you in SM is not the same as in a slung bottle. The way you manage reg switches is also not the same as you would if you were switching to a slung bottle - look up how the regs and hoses are setup for both cases.
Yes, there are 3 independent tanks in SM+deco bottle as well as single backmount + deco bottle + redundant gas bottle but that's where the similarity is going to end. As suggested already, please speak to an instructor about the safety of managing 2 slung bottles in your first tech course, regardless of what the standards or some random person on an Internet forum says.
Lots of people only do TEC 40 for just the reasons you state. You will learn a lot and develop your skills as well. Nothing wrong with that at all. Self reliant is only good for some limited gas planning and a couple of the skills.
DevonDiver
N/A
Here's my concept behind the article first mentioned by the OP..
1) The PADI Deep Diver course syllabus is junk, unless HEAVILY supplemented by the individual instructor. It gives the student very little in terms of skills or tools in which to mitigate increasing risks when diving at greater recreational depths, and much closer to no-stop limits.
2) The Tec40 course supplies a plethora of valuable skills and knowledge for the deeper recreational diver. This includes gas management, precision dive planning, ascent/stop protocols, team diving, equipment options and decompression management.
3) There are many recreational divers who aspire to deeper diving safely, or wish to add more conservatism to their dives, but who are not interested in full-blown technical diving.
4) Divers possibly ever considering technical diving should start their training in full technical diving configuration - either backmount or sidemount doubles. To do otherwise would deprive them of a necessary foundation in equipment familiarity and protocols.
5) There are other agencies that demand redundant gas (pony or more) for deeper or overhead recreational diving. There are also agencies that train 'advanced' recreational divers to use an "ascent gas" (>50%) for safety and conservatism.
6) I've had excellent results training recreational divers using the Tec40 syllabus. This is especially true when they are also sidemount trained. This is firmly 'tecreational' or 'advanced recreational' level diving. The end result is a thinking, educated diver, with a bigger toolset of options for increasing safety and conservatism... far beyond that supplied by the 'Deep Diver' qualification.
7) Post-qualification, few of those 'tecreational' divers use deco gas... but they do plan dives and gas precisely, they use redundancy properly and they have practical and proper experience should they ever exceed a no-stop limit. Few, if any, actually plan or conduct dedicated decompression dives.
8) The Tec40 course offers ample flexibility to be tailored to the individual students needs. That's how I run ALL my courses. I don't just deliver inflexible 'off-the-shelf' packages to the minimum standards and shortest timescale.
9) I fail to see any drawbacks in recreational deep divers having competency in precision gas and dive planning, higher fundamental skills, practical experience of conducting properly staged decompression, correct protocols and working familiarity with appropriate gas redundancy systems, more comprehensive diving theory and decompression knowledge and a more responsible and risk-averse mindset.
10) The same training concept, when offered by other agencies, is universally lauded and congratulated. People overlook that comparable training.. and results.. can be achieved through the PADI system. This may be due to pre-conceived assumptions; or because people have become used to low quality course delivery that fails to address and supply to the individual needs and goals of each student.
1) The PADI Deep Diver course syllabus is junk, unless HEAVILY supplemented by the individual instructor. It gives the student very little in terms of skills or tools in which to mitigate increasing risks when diving at greater recreational depths, and much closer to no-stop limits.
2) The Tec40 course supplies a plethora of valuable skills and knowledge for the deeper recreational diver. This includes gas management, precision dive planning, ascent/stop protocols, team diving, equipment options and decompression management.
3) There are many recreational divers who aspire to deeper diving safely, or wish to add more conservatism to their dives, but who are not interested in full-blown technical diving.
4) Divers possibly ever considering technical diving should start their training in full technical diving configuration - either backmount or sidemount doubles. To do otherwise would deprive them of a necessary foundation in equipment familiarity and protocols.
5) There are other agencies that demand redundant gas (pony or more) for deeper or overhead recreational diving. There are also agencies that train 'advanced' recreational divers to use an "ascent gas" (>50%) for safety and conservatism.
6) I've had excellent results training recreational divers using the Tec40 syllabus. This is especially true when they are also sidemount trained. This is firmly 'tecreational' or 'advanced recreational' level diving. The end result is a thinking, educated diver, with a bigger toolset of options for increasing safety and conservatism... far beyond that supplied by the 'Deep Diver' qualification.
7) Post-qualification, few of those 'tecreational' divers use deco gas... but they do plan dives and gas precisely, they use redundancy properly and they have practical and proper experience should they ever exceed a no-stop limit. Few, if any, actually plan or conduct dedicated decompression dives.
8) The Tec40 course offers ample flexibility to be tailored to the individual students needs. That's how I run ALL my courses. I don't just deliver inflexible 'off-the-shelf' packages to the minimum standards and shortest timescale.
9) I fail to see any drawbacks in recreational deep divers having competency in precision gas and dive planning, higher fundamental skills, practical experience of conducting properly staged decompression, correct protocols and working familiarity with appropriate gas redundancy systems, more comprehensive diving theory and decompression knowledge and a more responsible and risk-averse mindset.
10) The same training concept, when offered by other agencies, is universally lauded and congratulated. People overlook that comparable training.. and results.. can be achieved through the PADI system. This may be due to pre-conceived assumptions; or because people have become used to low quality course delivery that fails to address and supply to the individual needs and goals of each student.
@DevonDiver First of all, thanks for putting the effort into your response. How would you respond to the issue of the possibility of breathing the wrong gas for a single backmount diver with two slung cylinders?
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