Tec, Where to begin??

[TSandM]

Everyone I've talked to about cave/tech training had a great, if not the best instructor out there

Oh, yeah?

 

[DevonDiver]

And how do we know you're not a bum instructor? I would expect your students to say you're great, and I equally expect YOU to say you're great. See the issue?

Well, if you were to judge me on being a PADI technical instructor, I'd only have 'exceeding standards' to fall back upon. So be it. That said, I've trained with 4 tech agencies and teach currently for ANDI also. Does that really change anything? ANDI don't have those minimums... but mostly importantly they don't have maximums. PADI don't have maximums either.

Would it make a difference if I was aligned with something like UTD? I'd only have to slap down a credit card to make that move (as I've seen quite a few instructors doing recently... some of whom I don't rate particularly highly).

I don't think reputation as a tech instructor comes from the mouths of your students.... it comes from their performance. They're walking marketing... and I don't mean that they may recommend you to everyone. I mean that they themselves are recognized as competent and well-trained tech divers, by others... that's a validation. Only THEN their recommendation means something.

You seem to misinterpret that I'm "defending PADI" (gosh!). I'm not. It's just my simple belief that you can't judge an instructor based upon their agency affiliation. Neither can you judge 'a course'... because that's the product of an individual instructor, not an agency.

 

[waterpirate]

I have only met 2 padi tech instructors. Limited group I know, but the fact is that they both had multiple agency tech instructor ratings prior to padi even getting in the game. They did a simple cross over to appeal to a greater number of potential students I am guessing. They both had madd skills far beyond average.

I also think it is to early to start bashing padi tech instructors based on them being affiliated with padi. If the padi IT folks start signing off on abunch of zero to hero tech instructors, we should revisit this, but that is not what is happening from where I am sitting on the east coast.
Eric

 

[chrpai]

That said, I've trained with 4 tech agencies and teach currently for ANDI also. Does that really change anything?

I only know of one shop in Austin that is ANDI (Deep Blue ... Thom Dutton) and from what I understand it's wise to steer clear of that shop. Not knowing much about ANDI I figured the same of them also.

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas/181362-deep-blue-news.html

 

[DevonDiver]

Not knowing much about ANDI I figured the same of them also.

History of A.N.D.I: Andi Europe - The History of ANDI

I can't speak for the 'rec' side (have no dealings with), but ANDI has a long-standing in the S.E.Asian tech community. It's a pretty small agency nowadays, but has a long history and contains a depth of knowledge.

There were no zero-to-hero fast-track instructors, and no cheapo 'cross-overs' (all instructors have to qualify diver level, then instructor level per course taught). Those instructors I've encountered were all very credible. The courses I took were all quite excellent and demanding (even given I had 8 years technical experience through 3 different agencies...4 years as a tech instructor) when I enrolled on them.

The only thing I'd hope for is that, as an agency, they'd be more proactive with marketing themselves. GUE, UTD, PADI and TDI have gotten social media and the internet well understood... some of the older agencies (ANDI, IANTD and others) seem to be diminishing in the public awareness... that's a shame, given the quality that exists there.

 

[PfcAJ]

Well, if you were to judge me on being a PADI technical instructor, I'd only have 'exceeding standards' to fall back upon. So be it. That said, I've trained with 4 tech agencies and teach currently for ANDI also. Does that really change anything? ANDI don't have those minimums... but mostly importantly they don't have maximums. PADI don't have maximums either.

Would it make a difference if I was aligned with something like UTD? I'd only have to slap down a credit card to make that move (as I've seen quite a few instructors doing recently... some of whom I don't rate particularly highly).

I don't think reputation as a tech instructor comes from the mouths of your students.... it comes from their performance. They're walking marketing... and I don't mean that they may recommend you to everyone. I mean that they themselves are recognized as competent and well-trained tech divers, by others... that's a validation. Only THEN their recommendation means something.

You seem to misinterpret that I'm "defending PADI" (gosh!). I'm not. It's just my simple belief that you can't judge an instructor based upon their agency affiliation. Neither can you judge 'a course'... because that's the product of an individual instructor, not an agency.

If UTD let you simply purchase an instructor rating from them, I'd say the same thing. If you'll notice, I don't often recommend UTD for much of anything. I don't know enough about the goings-on of their instructor process. I will, however, talk about some of their course curriculums. Moving right along...

My point is that if an agency has low standards for passings its students, low standards for becoming an instructor, highly questionable course materials, equally questionable gear recommendations, and questionable gases for use in its questionable courses, thats ALL a student is guaranteed. Andy, you might be a rock star instructor that produces amazingly competent divers. But the agency you are with (PADI, idk about ANDI, but I know IANTD has stuff about aligning your charkras in the course materials) doesn't promise that. There's no quality control.

So you expect a brand new diver to the technical scene to be able to tell? Somehow? For their entry level course? If that was the case, all the ****ty instructors would be put out of business. But they aren't. Goon instructors produce goon students as a matter of course. And they go on to say how awesome their instructor was. Hello? Mom?

 

[DevonDiver]

There have always been goon instructors...and goon students.... long before PADI entered the technical instruction fold.

...and there are lots of different types of 'goons'. Kneelers are one type. Dogma-blinkered are another. Entrenched 'olde schoolers' are another. etc etc etc

The problem with technical diving tuition is that it has to be much more reliant on instructor expertise. It cannot be 'off-the-shelf', pre-packaged, plastic coated regurgitation like you might encounter in recreational diving course delivery. PADI may not have grasped that... so might some other agencies.

Fast-track instructors, regurgitating the content of a manual to students, following an A-B-C delivery of minimum skills aren't good in any course, recreational or technical. Especially so for technical. However, that's just a case of instructor style...and the breadth of experience they bring to the table.

An experienced and active TecRec instructor might be more capable than a newly qualified X, Y or Z agency instructor. In contrast, a multi-agency instructor might be more capable than a blinkered or dogmatic single-agency instructor. The gnarly old 'sea dog' tech instructor might have all the experience in the world, but may have no teaching ability... or may reject any progression or modern innovation in what they teach. That'd be as detrimental as being inexperienced...

How does the student know who to choose? By researching... And no, you don't need to be an automotive engineer to be capable of selecting the best car for your needs. Same is true for researching technical diving.

Goons tend to be known in the community... inexperience is revealed by a few simple questions... the level of an instructor's experience (how active they are, how, when and where they do their diving) is easily enough ascertained...and can be used as a comparison...

 

[DCBC]

Well said Andy.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Agreed. Goons also don't tend to stick around long.

 

[PfcAJ]

Long enough to become instructors for PADI.