Teaching Open Water Students while on a CCR?

[atechdiver]

I posted this on another forum, and was told that this question had been asked to death on other forums. A quick search turned up not so much. I thought I'd ask here, since my attempt to have a discussion basically turned into about 3 responses only, and being browbeaten for asking in the first place.

Here's the question, it was asked in two parts:

Is it ok to teach basic open water while the instructor is diving a rebreather? A friend of mine asked me that a few days ago, and I really don't know the answer, as I'm not an instructor. It sounds to me like a bad idea though. How would the instructor show any of the skills, if they aren't diving the same equipment at all?

I think the answer IS definately no. But I don't know what agency standards are for this.

I can understand that with more advanced work, like deco procedures, that maybe the instructor would wnat to dive their CCR, however, I still think it's a bit irresponsible to be diving a completely different configuration than the student. But that's just my opinion.

Let's take this one step futher:

What about recreational level courses, like maybe some of the PADI or SDI specialties, like wreck diver, deep diver, etc.

Would the instructor be sensible doing this on a rebreather? If it's one on one, should they dive the same configuration? Should the instructor at least require a buddy that is also diving the same configuration?

 

[ONESPEED]

I posted this on another forum, and was told that this question had been asked to death on other forums. A quick search turned up not so much. I thought I'd ask here, since my attempt to have a discussion basically turned into about 3 responses only, and being browbeaten for asking in the first place.

Sounds like a very legitimate question to me, I can't imagine why anyone would have a problem with it. I recently took Tech 1 from a very accomplished tech/cave/rebreather diver who made it a point to teach the course on the same equipment we were diving. While I'm not an instructor it seems a bit irresponsible to train divers on equipment they aren't diving.

 

[Thalassamania]

I always try to teach in gear that is as close to what the students are using as is possible, though sometimes I do bring in other gear to show them and to demonstrate to them.

 

[GeorgeC]

I don’t think it is a good idea for an instructor teaching OW (Or any non technical course) to use a CCR even if bailout bottle is slung. There is more to instructing than just teaching. The instructor is a role model for the student both in and out of the water. A student is always looking at the way the instructor moves in the water, out of the water, how he controls buoyancy, how he breaths, how he kicks and etc.

It would be impossible for the student to mimic the instructor no matter how hard he/she tries which is important to learning. It may be discouraging knowing he/she can’t mimic the instructor as he/she is not given the opportunity.

I do suggest the instructor show the students a CCR both in and out of the water once the class is over and everyone has passed. No need to introduce equipment to distract the student during the class. With that said I would rather show SMB’s, pony bottle use and configuration, and etc..

 

[pittyyofool]

THAT'S ILLEGAL! the PADI police will surely arrest you...

In a reality note I personally think that your students would be more comfortable If their instructor was using the same gear that they were; for 2 reasons.
A) If something bad happens they are familiar with your gear because it is basically the same as theirs, and they know how to reach for the octopus or turn off the air in case of a blow out...
B) If this crappy open circuit stuff is not good enough for my instructor why should I trust it? is it safe? old? dangerous?...

and as others said part of good teaching is "Show, See, Explain, Do, Repeat" how can this be done with out the same type of equipment. At least for the confined water dives. By the time an instructor takes the students in the ocean/lake IMO they should be competent enough to do the basic skills with out a demonstration. The only reason you do it is to let them know what you want to see them do. then a CCR could be used, but open circuit would be a better choice.

 

[atechdiver]

I always try to teach in gear that is as close to what the students are using as is possible, though sometimes I do bring in other gear to show them and to demonstrate to them.

That's how I figured it should be. I asked the original question, because a friend of a friend recently took a training session, where it was a recreational level course, and the instructor showed up in a rebreather. It was a one on one course, and IMHO that seems a little over the top.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Sounds like a lookee at my rebreather. You can;t dive or most likely afford one. But with what I'm charging you for a private class I can.

 

[Rick Inman]

CCR diving with OC students, for the instructor, is less than solo diving the CCR. As a newer CCR diver, I am not one to solo dive these statistically dangerous and complex systems, much less with a student who cannot provide assistance if you need it (yet, I've dived my ccr with brand new divers, so I'm guilty myself...).

Never mind if it's good for the student. It's risky for the instructor.

 

[jorge.a.mahauad]

Hello atechdiver,
There is a relly good post on DSAT TecRec blog on the matter. You can read a lot fo comments and ideas there. If you are going to DEMA there will be some events on PADI's possition on CCR's.
Have a good day,
Jorge

 

[ScubaDocER]

NAUI does not allow it and uses it as an example of what is not allowed in its S&P.