Teaching Open Water Students while on a CCR?

[AndyNZ]

PADI standards do not allow teaching of any PADI course whilst using a CCR.

You can teach ConEd courses using a SCR (Dolphin or Ray - they are the ones PADI have courses for).

I'm with Thal, generally I am using something that is close to what the students are using. HTere are exceptions - wreck courses I wear my twinset, but it is at least recognisable and I can fully justify to the students why each and every bit of the kit is appropriate.

 

[RonFrank]

My understanding of re-breather diving is that it is less safe to do so at shallow depths (33feet~).

That aside, it appears a couple of agencies prohibit the use of re-breathers for teaching non-tech classes. Beyond that, any instructor that felt it was a good choice for teaching OW IMO is no one I want teaching OW.

Many folks learn visually, and watching the instructor setup/use gear is a learning tool, and important.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As noted in post #10 it is specifically forbidden in NAUI standards. You must be wearing the same configuration as the students you are teaching.

Standards aside, I don't see how you can teach Basic Open Water class effectively in a CCR. More than any other class, OW is where students are going to be trying their best to emulate the examples set by the instruction staff (instructors AND divemasters). How are you going to demonstrate skills?

This should be a no-brainer ... it's a real bad idea.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[atechdiver]

I think the first part of my question is kind of a no brainer. What do you all think about part 2. What about more advanced open water classes like wreck diver deep diver or advanced open water.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think the first part of my question is kind of a no brainer. What do you all think about part 2. What about more advanced open water classes like wreck diver deep diver or advanced open water.

It still complicates things. The instructor needs to be in control of the class. If a student on a deep dive experiences a sudden freeflow or other loss of gas, how's the instructor going to handle it? Sure, he can pass off his bailout bottle ... but that leaves him in a bit of a pinch if he has issues and has to get off the loop.

It can be done ... but you have to plan for it. For AOW, I wouldn't even consider it. I can use ... and give my students ... more leeway in configuration differences, but I would still want the option of being able to demonstrate a skill or handle an emergency in a manner that my students were more comfortable with.

When I took Advanced Nitrox, my instructor did our instructional dives using the same OC setup I was using. But our first post-class dive together he used his Meg. It complicated gas reserve calculations (not difficult, but more so than if he'd been on OC), and also because he was on a different deco schedule than me, it created some confusion that we had to work out on the ascent. It wasn't anything too difficult to deal with ... and I'm glad for the experience ... but that's about the most basic level where I'd feel comfortable mixing OC and CC.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Thalassamania]

Unless I'm teaching rebreather I don't want to be in a rebreather, the stakes and the task loading are too high.

 

[AndyNZ]

I think the first part of my question is kind of a no brainer. What do you all think about part 2. What about more advanced open water classes like wreck diver deep diver or advanced open water.

Ignoring any safety/best practice issues entirely for now....

I've been contemplating buying a CCR for some years now, and to be honest, at the moment the disadvantages way outweigh the advantages.

The cost of the sorb, the cells, the batteries, the additional hassles.... well, it makes no sense when you are diving with an OC diver.

It makes even less (financial) sense (to me) to pay out for all of those things when your dive time and plan is restricted by what you're students can do. It massively increases the cost of your dive, for no benefit at all. So why do it?

 

[elmer fudd]

I think that to a large extent it would depend on the class being taught.

I've never had an instructor that used the same crappy rental gear used by most OW students. They all had drysuits and usually pony bottles and tanks filled with nitrox and sometimes other paraphenalia like dry gloves. For me as a beginning open water student these things seemed nearly as exotic as a rebreather would have. The gear that they did have was suitable for the course however. They could demonstrate things like buddy breathing, free flowing regs, manually inflating their BC's, etc... in the same manner as we were being taught to do it.

Of course the point of OW certification is largely to teach the students how to use the equipment safely. For some other course work that's not much of an issue. When I did my AOW, it wouldn't have mattered much to me if my instructor had been using a rebreather, apart from the fact that I would have been utterly fascinated by it. In retrospect, AOW was just a fluff class with a handful of fun dives thrown in. The instructor could have been using a hardhat or a hookah and it wouldn't have made too much difference.

For the Rescue Diver class, it might just make sense to have the instructor in a rebreather. Given the statistics that is.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

For the Rescue Diver class, it might just make sense to have the instructor in a rebreather. Given the statistics that is.

Although I like the idea of exposing Rescue students to multiple gear configurations, it is not the instructor who should be wearing this alternative gear but rather an assistant or "victim". The reason is because an instructor is ultimately the person responsible for students, and should be in gear that best accommodates controlling any situation that may occur with those students while underwater. I believe that is best done in a configuration that the students are familiar with.

With my agency it's also a matter of policy ... "Instructors and dive leaders must be similarly equipped as their students during training, i.e. when students are using open circuit scuba, the instructor must also use open circuit scuba". (NAUI Standards and Policies Manual, page 2.15a, rev 1-04).

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rick Inman]

Although I like the idea of exposing Rescue students to multiple gear configurations, it is not the instructor who should be wearing this alternative gear but rather an assistant or "victim".

Somewhat off topic, but, a rescue certified diver not familiar with a rebreather is going to get a surprise if they attempt to lift to the surface and control the buoyancy of an unconscious RB diver using standard agency techniques as the RB counter lungs expand on ascent...

Mixing OC and RB teams if fraught with issues, much more in a class setting.