TDI Extended Range - last words of advice?

[SeaCobra]

The bottom line is that there is no magic gas, no substitute for experience, and no shortcut to becoming a competent, capable deep diver. The only way to develop as a diver is by learning skills, challenging yourself, making dives, and gaining insight.

JC

Amen brother!

 

[Rainer]

If you're a **** diver at 30' you aren't going to be any better at 180'. If you've got issues, stay in the shallows. Doing deep dives on air is dumb. I didn't do my driving class drunk, nor did I do my deco training stoned. Deep air is not a great intro to technical diving.

 

[Web Monkey]

No amount of helium will make a dumb ass, smart. If you are "dumb as a stump" at 127 feet, this is god's way of telling you you need more experience before you go much deeper, or he wants to thin you from the herd. Helium for dives in recreational depths is not the answer for inexperience?

Oddly enough, I got much smarter as I ascended, so I feel pretty safe in assuming it was narcosis, and that anything that reduces narcosis would be a good thing.

Also you can't "experience" your way out of being narced any more than a drunk driver can get good at drunk driving. Narcosis is a physiological impairment to clear thinking, not something that you can train for. You can get used to it, but that won't make you any smarter or quicker.

Also, > 130 is not a recreational (no-deco) dive unless you're only staying for a couple of minutes, so I'm not really sure where you're getting the "no helium for recreational depths" thing from.

Terry

 

[Bismark]

Personally, I think the Extended Range course is not just valuable training but important to diver development. Just for clarification, we are talking about air dives to 180 feet.

I once knew a diver, and for the sake of this story let's call him "Bart". He was a deep air diver who anticipated his evolution into a Trimix Diver with unbridled enthusiasm. Bart had done any number of stupid things at stupid depths on air over many years. Now, with the magic of Trimix, he believed the era of doing stupid things was at an end!! No more mockery coming from peers! Praise Trimix!! Only accolades, victories, and artifacts lay ahead!! Onward!

Maybe not so much? On his very first Trimix dive, Bart did something incredibly stupid, just like he always did. Much to his total amazement, he still did stupid crap!!! What he did not know was that it was not the Nitrogen, it was him, and until he figured that out he was going to continue to do stupid things.

If breathing 30% helium is good, isn't 100% better? No amount of helium will make a dumb ass, smart. If you are "dumb as a stump" at 127 feet, this is god's way of telling you you need more experience before you go much deeper, or he wants to thin you from the herd. Helium for dives in recreational depths is not the answer for inexperience?

The bottom line is that there is no magic gas, no substitute for experience, and no shortcut to becoming a competent, capable deep diver. The only way to develop as a diver is by learning skills, challenging yourself, making dives, and gaining insight.

Trimix is a powerful tool, for use by craftsmen. Before you can utilize it properly and to its potential, you need to become a craftsman? Would you give a 4 year old a circular saw? You can't just show him the buttons and tell him to be careful?

I think the Extended Range program takes divers to reasonable depths for air diving and affords them the opportunity to gain valuable experience on air, before they move on to Advanced Trimix (if Trimix is what they want?).

Among the prerequisites for Advanced Trimix, which takes divers to 100 meters, the candidate needs to be either Extended Range or Basic Trimix certified, not both. In my opinion, the divers that come from Extended Range bring a higher degree of respect for the perils of the environment, and a greater level of skills, fully earned by their bottom time on air.


Cheers

JC

Like anyone else you are entitled to your opinion. However, when it comes to 180' air dives, I think you will find that a lot of us don't share your opinion. As you mentioned, dumb is dumb, but impaired and dumb is even worse. I agree that no amount of helium will make a diver smart, however, narcosis is narcosis. You are impaired. Period. And now we are back at the argument of how the drunk driver gets better with practise. A non starter in my opinion.

 

[ianr33]

Going off to do my combined TDI Adv Nitrox / Deco Procedures / Extended Range course

I'm shocked,shocked I tell you that this has descended into a deep air bashing thread

 

[brockbr]

Personally, I think the Extended Range course is not just valuable training but important to diver development. Just for clarification, we are talking about air dives to 180 feet.

I once knew a diver, and for the sake of this story let's call him "Bart". He was a deep air diver who anticipated his evolution into a Trimix Diver with unbridled enthusiasm. Bart had done any number of stupid things at stupid depths on air over many years. Now, with the magic of Trimix, he believed the era of doing stupid things was at an end!! No more mockery coming from peers! Praise Trimix!! Only accolades, victories, and artifacts lay ahead!! Onward!

Maybe not so much? On his very first Trimix dive, Bart did something incredibly stupid, just like he always did. Much to his total amazement, he still did stupid crap!!! What he did not know was that it was not the Nitrogen, it was him, and until he figured that out he was going to continue to do stupid things.

If breathing 30% helium is good, isn't 100% better? No amount of helium will make a dumb ass, smart. If you are "dumb as a stump" at 127 feet, this is god's way of telling you you need more experience before you go much deeper, or he wants to thin you from the herd. Helium for dives in recreational depths is not the answer for inexperience?

The bottom line is that there is no magic gas, no substitute for experience, and no shortcut to becoming a competent, capable deep diver. The only way to develop as a diver is by learning skills, challenging yourself, making dives, and gaining insight.

Trimix is a powerful tool, for use by craftsmen. Before you can utilize it properly and to its potential, you need to become a craftsman? Would you give a 4 year old a circular saw? You can't just show him the buttons and tell him to be careful?

I think the Extended Range program takes divers to reasonable depths for air diving and affords them the opportunity to gain valuable experience on air, before they move on to Advanced Trimix (if Trimix is what they want?).

Among the prerequisites for Advanced Trimix, which takes divers to 100 meters, the candidate needs to be either Extended Range or Basic Trimix certified, not both. In my opinion, the divers that come from Extended Range bring a higher degree of respect for the perils of the environment, and a greater level of skills, fully earned by their bottom time on air.


Cheers

JC

Rhone Man - Consider that you just got for free what MANY, MANY people would give a left lugnut for - A personal response from somebody who has been there, stared death in the face, and now can't get the stink out of his wetsuit.

John - I read your advice as you intended. That is to say "get experience before using the more dangerous tools". Thanks for taking to the time to respond to Rhone Man.

 

[Bismark]

Rhone Man - Consider that you just got for free what MANY, MANY people would give a left lugnut for - A personal response from somebody who has been there, stared death in the face, and now can't get the stink out of his wetsuit..

I am not sure if you are making a joke with your comment or not, but if you are, then it is kind of funny. If not, I have to ask you if you see tech diving as an adrenaline sport? If you do, you might find your dive buddy selection process to be.....let's just say, less than enthusiastic.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Like anyone else you are entitled to your opinion. However, when it comes to 180' air dives, I think you will find that a lot of us don't share your opinion. As you mentioned, dumb is dumb, but impaired and dumb is even worse. I agree that no amount of helium will make a diver smart, however, narcosis is narcosis. You are impaired. Period. And now we are back at the argument of how the drunk driver gets better with practise. A non starter in my opinion.

Deep Air is not an issue given a benign warm water environment and sea state, and keeping tasks done at depth as simple as possible (i.g. square profiles; no wreck penetrations; no "mental gymnastics" in figuring out on-the-fly deco profiles etc ). I've come full circle on this, and have no qualms at all based on the above provisos, and even with regard to the lessons learned from the type I bends hit suffered last year Oct.

However for a beginner/novice, I would strongly recommend learning and practicing vital skills --with all your full and proper cognitive brain faculties-- without the added handicap of being "narc'd out-of-your-mind" as you reach depth. I would reconsider, and go with a dive op that teaches & supports an Intro to Trimix component as well. . .

 

[battles2a5]

Rhone Man - Consider that you just got for free what MANY, MANY people would give a left lugnut for - A personal response from somebody who has been there, stared death in the face, and now can't get the stink out of his wetsuit.

Well I wouldn't say he got it for "free" since I think John is a part owner in the dive op where Rhone Man is getting trained

 

[Bismark]

Deep Air is not an issue given a benign warm water environment and sea state, and keeping tasks done at depth as simple as possible (i.g. square profiles; no wreck penetrations; no "mental gymnastics" in figuring out on-the-fly deco profiles etc ). I've come full circle on this, and have no qualms at all based on the above provisos, and even with regard to the lessons learned from the type I bends hit suffered last year Oct.

However for a beginner/novice, I would strongly recommend learning and practicing vital skills --with all your full and proper cognitive brain faculties-- without the added handicap of being "narc'd out-of-your-mind" as you reach depth. I would reconsider, and go with a dive op that teaches & supports an Intro to Trimix component as well. . .

Seatbelts, airbags, parachutes and ejection seats are all pretty much useless in a benign environment also. Unfortunately, we can't always control our environment. My personal view is that I make sure I am prepared and trained and use the proper equipment including gas mixture to deal with situations where my once benign now wants to help send a floral bouquet home to my wife. Your approach is no big deal as long as everything goes right; my approach is no big deal when everything goes wrong. When things go right for me, it just cost some more and took me more training to get to that point. When things go wrong for you, you are in deep sh-t.

I am not going to waste anymore time debating deep air. I never could talk some friends out of drinking and driving either. Lets just agree to disagree.