TDI Extended Range Instructor Trainer is South FL?

[wetb4igetinthewater]

That is not what I said at all. The previous sentence was referring to TDI standards.

What I did say was:

“There is not really a necessity to do a deep air dive to 180 feet during the course.”

i would definitely not endanger a student by going to 180 feet on air, just because I could under that standard.

I also never said that I would let the student figure it out on there own. I do not know where you are getting this from, certainly not me.

Really what is the point of teaching a course if you don't train your student to max limits?

What I am gathering from this discussion is that the true value of the course is teaching the use of the second deco gas, and in teaching that second deco gas, you don't have to go to 180 feet. In other words, the emphasis of the course is misplaced by talking about depth and extended range.

If the course is done shallower and focuses on using two decompression gases, then it make a lot more sense.

Doing it shallower where two decompression gasses are not needed doesn't make sense to me.

Just take normoxic trimix down to 60 meters/200 feet, learn to use two decompression gasses and be done with it.

The sooner deep air stops being taught, the better.

 

[Gone for diving]

Of course, what the diver does outside of the course is at their discretion.

This is with any course or certification ?Isn't this why courses are taught? So you know your limits and the consequences of exceeding normal limits,

If no one broke rules we wouldn't be, diving, Using nitrox, oxygen, helium exploring caves etc,

A course or certification is meant to teach basics and norms and mistakes, and give a minimum requirement,

Take any other sport or skill,

Driving,
you do your road skills etc,
Now you can drive, like an idiot on the road, or on the race track, in a cow pasture etc,
and if you screw up it's your problem, and its not because you didn't hold the steering wheel at 10 & 2 .

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

and if you screw up it's your problem, and its not because you didn't hold the steering wheel at 10 & 2 .

I never hold the wheel at 10 and 2 o'clock. Neither does anyone I know who races, as it leads to oversteer.

I wish 9 and 3 o'clock were what is taught.

 

[VikingDives]

I never hold the wheel at 10 and 2 o'clock. Neither does anyone I know who races, as it leads to oversteer.

I wish 9 and 3 o'clock were what is taught.

+1 Now all we need is the world to shuffle steer, and all instructors to teach in NB/T and life will be good.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

+1 Now all we need is the world to shuffle steer, and all instructors to teach in NB/T and life will be good.

Αμήν!

 

[Compressor]

Please keep the posts educational and be kind. Make your point and expect a counterpoint.
Thank you to all who have contributed positively so far.

 

[tursiops]

I never hold the wheel at 10 and 2 o'clock. Neither does anyone I know who races, as it leads to oversteer.

I wish 9 and 3 o'clock were what is taught.

Depends on the car and the road.

 

[boulderjohn]

Just take normoxic trimix down to 60 meters/200 feet, learn to use two decompression gasses and be done with it.

You are violating a basic concept of instruction in a way I mentioned recently in another thread. Learning is a transition from old learning to new, a step by step process takes the student up the ladder of learning in achievable steps. (Think partial mask flood, full mask flood, mask removal and replacement, and no mask swim and replacement.) Dealing with two deco gases is a pretty big skill step, and having the student learn it in a class going to 200 feet might be a bit much.

I frankly don't recall what it was like for me when I went through the TDI sequence sans Extended Range. My TDI training was interrupted with UTD training, and in the UTD world, I only used one deco gas but carried a stage, so it was something in between. When I went back to TDI for trimix certification, two bottle deco was new to me, but carrying two bottles was not.

PADI has students learn to use 2 deco bottles in the Tec 50 class, and when they go to trimix, they learn to work with 4 bottles from the start.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

You are violating a basic concept of instruction in a way I mentioned recently in another thread. Learning is a transition from old learning to new, a step by step process takes the student up the ladder of learning in achievable steps. (Think partial mask flood, full mask flood, mask removal and replacement, and no mask swim and replacement.) Dealing with two deco gases is a pretty big skill step, and having the student learn it in a class going to 200 feet might be a bit much.

I frankly don't recall what it was like for me when I went through the TDI sequence sans Extended Range. My TDI training was interrupted with UTD training, and in the UTD world, I only used one deco gas but carried a stage, so it was something in between. When I went back to TDI for trimix certification, two bottle deco was new to me, but carrying two bottles was not.

PADI has students learn to use 2 deco bottles in the Tec 50 class, and when they go to trimix, they learn to work with 4 bottles from the start.

Question for you. Any idea on the requirements for TDI normoxic trimix?

 

[DiveTucson]

I am not supporting the use of deep air.

The standards state that all 4 dives must be deeper than 100 feet and 2 of the 4 dives only need to be at least 130 feet. There is not really a necessity to do a deep air dive to 180 feet during the course. Of course, what the diver does outside of the course is at their discretion.

Extended range does have value in the TDI technical curriculum in that it requires the demonstration of competence with 2 deco / stage cylinders which AN/DP/helitrox does not, but trimix does.

So, extended range does give the technical diving student the opportunity to become proficient in the use of 2 deco gasses prior to a trimix course (helitrox not with standing).

I guess that is the difference. I won’t certify a student to a max course depth unless I dive the depth with them. You won’t get a Trimix card from me unless we do a 200’ dive.

If I taught TDI Extended Range it would be the same hence why I refuse to teach it.