TDI Advanced Wreck

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

When it comes to using strobes, it's emphasized that they should only be used where they may make sense. Example of when strobes may make sense: a narrow walkway where the diver is going to be able to feel the left and right walls.

So when you get to the narrow walkway you stop running your reel & tie it off....then place a strobe at both ends of the narrow walkway and then start running another reel at the other end of the narrow walkway?

 

[kensuf]

So when you get to the narrow walkway you stop running your reel & tie it off....then place a strobe at both ends of the narrow walkway and then start running another reel at the other end of the narrow walkway?

As it was presented to me, it really depends on the wreck. When I took the class the only place where we only used stobes was on the RSB1, which literally was one of two long walkways.

In terms of doorways, it was stated that we should make solid anchors of our guideline on either side of the door in case a hatch were to shut and cut the line. It seems like a good move, I had a door do something like that to me on the Oriskany.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don't want to be seen as promoting the strobe idea, but I think what's missing in most forum posts is the discussions that were held in class about guidelines, strobes, and progressive penetration and the framing in which each may be appropriate.

I need to be clear, I'm not stating my own opinions here, I'm simply relaying the content of the discussions I had with Alec (who is from the "JC school") during my class.

One of the important parts that is emphasized is the use of progressive penetration and really knowing where you are in the wreck. As part of the progressive penetration idea that is emphasized, a person should be building a map in their head of where they are and not extending too far beyond that on any given dive. In terms of a guideline, we ran reels in the class but it was emphasized that a person should be able to have an idea of where they are by touch contact with the structure - "a wall feels like a wall, a door feels like a door, a porthole feels like a porthole" - rather than just using the guideline only as a means of navigating.

When it comes to using strobes, it's emphasized that they should only be used where they may make sense. Example of when strobes may make sense: a narrow walkway where the diver is going to be able to feel the left and right walls. Even if there's a side passage coming out of the walkway in the middle, they should be able to ignore that door if they built that mental map and know where they are.

Another example is on top of deco bottles to make them easier to find/spot -- personally I've been doing this at Eagles Nest with my 70' bottle for years (even though they're clipped to the line, I still hang a strobe).

For some context, when I teach a cave class I have my students run a reel, but also look at the cave and get a good look at their surroundings so they should have an idea of where they are based on the features they see, I bet you probably do something similar. That's kind of a similar context to the discussions I had with Alec.

Like keeping track of underwater landmarks for natural navigation of sorts

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I guess my thinking is: Why not just run a line"?

 

[boriss]

I guess my thinking is: Why not just run a line"?

I think he's saying do both!

You run the line, but put a strobe in certain places. When I went to Spiegel with my buddies they hung a strobe on the exit door. When nothing is silted it's a good visual frame of reference. It was nice actually.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I think he's saying do both!

If that is the case, fine.

 

[lostsheep]

I have not seen any JC bashing. JC is an excellent instructor whose reputation precedes him. I have been in the water on the Spiegel Grove with him.

I cannot understand how strobes placed in the wreck at such a distance that a siltout would certainly prevent the wreck diver from seeing from one strobe to the other strobe is a better idea and safer than running a proper line. It defies logic.

Older video I made in the forward engine Room of the Spiegel Grove

There is no shortage of posts where long time members with clout on SB, warn about taking a class from JC. I’ve heard the exact same concerns from instructors in person too.

I acknowledge that the concerns taken out of context are real. My objection is that in his class he talks a lot more about why and when he uses a given technique. Reading the inter webs one would conclude that all he uses is strobes or progressive penetration and that is not accurate.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

I will now pose a question regarding "Progressive Penetration" after I make a statement about what I think it is:

My thinking has been that progressive penetration is where you go inside the wreck maybe 25 - 35 feet a few times memorizing visually & tactilely the wreck. Then after that section is memorized you add another 25-35 feet and on and on. Is that close to accurate?

*IF* that is an accurate description of "Progressive Penetration" I could see it literally taking years and hundreds of dives to explore a wreck like the Spiegel Grove.

 

[kensuf]

I will now pose a question regarding "Progressive Penetration" after I make a statement about what I think it is:

My thinking has been that progressive penetration is where you go inside the wreck maybe 25 - 35 feet a few times memorizing visually & tactilely the wreck. Then after that section is memorized you add another 25-35 feet and on and on. Is that close to accurate?

*IF* that is an accurate description of "Progressive Penetration" I could see it literally taking years and hundreds of dives to explore a wreck like the Spiegel Grove.

If I'm not mistaken, the Spiegel is the third largest artificial reef in the world. Doing a dive on that is different than most other wrecks.

As I said, the only wreck we didn't run a reel on was the RSB-1 - it was literally a 150' long straight walkway.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

If I'm not mistaken, the Spiegel is the third largest artificial reef in the world. Doing a dive on that is different than most other wrecks.

I recall reading about guys doing "Progressive Penetration" on the Andrea Doria. Am I mistaken on that?