Talk me *OUT* of a BP/W setup

[rivers]

I have 2 bp/w set-ups. Steel plate and 40lb twinset wing, which is what I use for 99% of my diving. And an ali backplate and single 30lb wing. The ali backplate is used solely in the pool (or lent out to one of my friends). I'll use the single wing and steel backplate for shore diving or single tank "look at the pretty fish" diving abroad (about 2 dives a year maybe). The weight of the steel plate is negligible compared to everything else (travelling with a full set of tech kit is fun).
If I dive abroad, the drysuit and light undersuit comes with (just a baselayer). No need to re-size my harness.

 

[mattia_v]

A few comments from a newbie diver / recent BP/W convert:

- No jacket BC I've had is as comfortable / unconstraining as my Aluminum BP / Hog Harnass / 33lb donut wing (tecline brand)
- Try to find a setup that does not require an STA; mine doesn't, and I much prefer it to my girlfriend's, which does
- For warm water diving, 30lbs is probably overkill; I'm considering adding an 18lb Apeks WTX-D18 wing (much cheaper and easily available here in Europe, otherwise I'd consider a DSS 17lb wing) because I don't need much lift, and about 4kg of weight with an Al80.
- I like my quick release weight pockets, don't like weight belts. Also have trim pockets for the tank. Works great.
- Travel weight is around 3.6-3.7kg; there are some lighter travels BCs, but we're talking maybe 1 kg or so, and disassembled BP/W actually pack quite neatly. As it is, we can fit pretty much full dive gear in a rolling samsonite that weighs under 45 lbs, for both people (BC, 3.5mm full suits, fins, booties, reef hooks, SMBs; regs in hand luggage).
- Dangliness is easy to control - my DSMB is bungeed and clipped to the side of the plate (other options shown in the thread), and lights clip neatly on the chest strap, held in place by a rubber loop. Cleaner than pockets as far as I'm concerned, and the camera clips off on a lanyard but is usually in hand.


Minor downsides:
- Floating upright takes a bit more practice. Massively inflating your wing will tend to put you face forward, and you learn to pull up your knees to stabilise a little. Bouyant near empty Al80's don't help. This is not a real issue for me
- Crotch straps can be fussy (according to the GF). I actually find the single piece Hog harnass much, much easier to put on and off, but tastes vary.

 

[cool_hardware52]

A few words about "BP&W will force you face first at the surface"

Yes, if the diver is over weighted and not using a properly adjusted crotch strap.

No, if the diver is properly weighted and has the harness, including the crotch strap adjusted as designed.

The properly weighted diver will need only a "puff" of gas in their BC to get their chin out of the water. This small volume of gas will be behind their shoulders, not their kidneys. This puff of gas will cause both the rig *and* the diver to rise out of the water *if* the crotch strap is properly deployed.

OTOH the grossly over weighted diver need to inflate their wing all the way down to the bottom of the wing, which can result in a forward turning moment. If there is no crotch strap or it is loose, the rig and not the diver, will rise. This inevitably leads to the diver adding *more* gas to the BC.

It's well to remember that the key to comfort at the surface is proper weighting, not a huge BC. Any portion of any BC that's above the water provides no lift as it displaces no water.....


Tobin

 

[tbone1004]

confused T'Bone is curious by your statements that you can't stay comfortably at the surface of the water in a backplate and wing....

 

[stuartv]

@OP: I posted before, as you requested, to talk you OUT of a BP/W. But:

If you know you're going to start diving doubles within 18 months, then you're going to need to buy a BP/W setup. In which case, you may as well start with one and just buy a doubles wing later.

I have a SS BP (2, actually) and a Kydex. I almost never use the Kydex.

Flying with a SS BP has not been a problem for me. I have flown with mine to Mexico, Hawaii (twice), and Las Vegas (Lake Mead). I fit my BP/W (with SS BP) in my rollaboard carry-on bag. Along with it, I fit my mask, wetsuit, and a few other items. I carry my regulators in my "personal" item. So, the only scuba gear I put in my checked bag are my fins (and miscellaneous accessories and tools). With the SS BP and other stuff in my carry-on bag, it has never been subjected to a weight limitation. But, the carry-on DOES weigh less than 50#, so I can't foresee it being a problem, even if someone did want to weigh my carry-on bag. Airport security often does ask me "scuba gear?" when they x-ray my bag. Usually, they don't even bother to open it up.

In other words, in your situation, I would just buy a SS BP and be done with that aspect of the decision-making process. I would also go with a 30'ish pound wing. to cover your cold water diving and also use in warm water. You might eventually decide you want to get a smaller wing for warm water, but then again, a lot of people have no complaints about using a 30# wing in warm water. I would not have bought my 23# wing except that my 30# wing is a horseshoe and I wanted a donut, and the 30# is older and has proven to be a bit fragile.

With a SS BP, the only time I would think you might be especially over weighted is if you dive in board shorts and you use a steel tank. Most warm water (for you, based on what you've posted) is going to be a flight destination and you'll be using rented tanks. Which most likely means aluminum. And with an aluminum tank and a SS BP, even if you are diving in board shorts and even if you are over weighted, you won't be so overweighted as to be a problem. I mean, an SS BP is only 4 - 5 # heavier than an AL one, right? And you probably won't be overweighted anyway (with an AL tank). When I use my SS BP with an AL tank and my 3/2mm suit, I normally add 8#, in salt water. I might be 2 # heavier than I need to be, but it's close. With board shorts and no wetsuit, I think the SS BP and an AL tank would be very close to perfect (for me, anyway) in salt water.

 

[Bison Ravi]

Arguments AGAINST just getting set up in a BP/W from the get go? I'm a 31y/o male who doesn't mind things being a tad more complicated and plan to be a (relatively) active local diver (cold water, PNW) + tropical vacay diver.

IMHO, a BP/W is superior in pretty much every way to a jacket BCD. And a good sidemount system is better than a BP/W.

My sidemount system packs smaller than any other dive system I know.

I could dive single tank to doubles with stages with the exact same equipment, wet or drysuit.

Can be cheaper to buy than most dive systems.

Comfort is better for me in and out of the water, for the diving I do.

Only negatives is that on your own you will have a lot of difficulties trying to set it up. It's much easier to find a good instructor and have him setup the harness/tanks and show you the basics at the beginning until you know what you are doing.

 

[OMANDIVER]

Back plate is useful for doubles. Otherwise a jacket works fine for a single tank. Some jackets trim better than others. Sidemount is good too. Personally would rather have a sign round my neck saying knobhead than wear a backplate for a single tank recreational dive. Look at the pic above, it will become obvious why.

 

[tbone1004]

care to elaborate for those of us why you made that statement? especially while claiming to be a dir practitioner and advocating jackets? and why you wouldn't wear a plate for single tank diving? you make a blanket statement, with nothing to support it

 

[OMANDIVER]

Yup its like the mask on the back of the head thing. If you need to ask....

 

[CptTightPants21]

Yup its like the mask on the back if the head thing. If you need to ask....

Ignore him Tom, don't feed the troll.