taking nitrox cert with basic scuba course

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I think that a lot of the supposed strange rules about nitrox certification are indicative of the dramatic changes that have taken place in the thinking about nitrox over the years. It was not all that long ago that some recreational scuba agencies refused to teach nitrox at all because it was considered too dangerous for recreational diving. It was not all that long ago that DEMA refused to allow any presentations on nitrox diving at its annual convention for the same reason. Entire agencies were created to deal with this, and they put nitrox in their names so that people would know that unlike other agencies, they would teach you how to use nitrox. The now defunct IAND agency was created to teach the use of nitrox. ANDI originally stood for American Nitrox Divers, Inc. IANTD stands for the International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers. When I took my PADI nitrox course, it was still a new and daring adventure. The course was quite complicated, with lots of mathematical calculations on the final exam.

That attitude changed fairly quickly as people realized it was not nearly as dangerous as was originally thought. Courses became much easier, and most or nearly all of the math disappeared.

We are still in a state of transition. Some people still have old school ideas about it, and will scream in threads that today's nitrox divers are inviting death because they are simply writing down the MOD off a chart or reading it from a computer and don't know how to compute it using the correct equation. In contrast, others don't know why it is not included routinely in the OW class. In other words--some people say modern classes are dangerously short and incomplete, while others say there is no point in having the classes at all, since it is all so easy.

Having the class separate is thus not a new money grab--it is a vestige from the days it used to be considered absolutely necessary.
 
I think that a lot of the supposed strange rules about nitrox certification are indicative of the dramatic changes that have taken place in the thinking about nitrox over the years. It was not all that long ago that some recreational scuba agencies refused to teach nitrox at all because it was considered too dangerous for recreational diving. It was not all that long ago that DEMA refused to allow any presentations on nitrox diving at its annual convention for the same reason. Entire agencies were created to deal with this, and they put nitrox in their names so that people would know that unlike other agencies, they would teach you how to use nitrox. The now defunct IAND agency was created to teach the use of nitrox. ANDI originally stood for American Nitrox Divers, Inc. IANTD stands for the International Association of Nitrox and Technical Divers. When I took my PADI nitrox course, it was still a new and daring adventure. The course was quite complicated, with lots of mathematical calculations on the final exam.

That attitude changed fairly quickly as people realized it was not nearly as dangerous as was originally thought. Courses became much easier, and most or nearly all of the math disappeared.

We are still in a state of transition. Some people still have old school ideas about it, and will scream in threads that today's nitrox divers are inviting death because they are simply writing down the MOD off a chart or reading it from a computer and don't know how to compute it using the correct equation. In contrast, others don't know why it is not included routinely in the OW class. In other words--some people say modern classes are dangerously short and incomplete, while others say there is no point in having the classes at all, since it is all so easy.

Having the class separate is thus not a new money grab--it is a vestige from the days it used to be considered absolutely necessary.
Thanks for the history lesson. Sometimes things just make a lot more sense when you know the history of the thing.
 
SDI also has "Boat Diver" as a specialty. I actually think that is one of my specialties for Advanced. I would have to look.

No doubt there are some specialty certifications of dubious value. But, if those are not made into requirements, then I see the "money grabbing" aspect of it as pretty innocuous. Better for them to make money off people who will pay for a Zombie Apocalypse Diver than not to offer it and have to make up that profit off me.... :)
 
No doubt there are some specialty certifications of dubious value. But, if those are not made into requirements, then I see the "money grabbing" aspect of it as pretty innocuous. Better for them to make money off people who will pay for a Zombie Apocalypse Diver than not to offer it and have to make up that profit off me.... :)
I think stuff like that does a disservice to scuba as a whole. It makes some agencies/shops seem dishonest. I remember when I took open water, I handed the SSI medical waiver (signed by several doctors) to my NAUI instructor. He laughed about it. Until that moment I had no idea there was more than one certification agency. I bet many divers get certified and never figure it out. They assume if their trusted instructor is teaching the class, it must be valuable and normal for divers to take it as they progress in their training.
 
No doubt there are some specialty certifications of dubious value. But, if those are not made into requirements, then I see the "money grabbing" aspect of it as pretty innocuous. Better for them to make money off people who will pay for a Zombie Apocalypse Diver than not to offer it and have to make up that profit off me.... :)
Let's straighten some of this out, too.

A friend and I created a course we wanted to teach because we thought the skills in it were important. We treated it as a workshop students could take, unconnected to any agency. We at first worked independently and coincidentally, and then shared notes when we realized we were working on the same project. Some time after that, this friend, a former attorney, was advised by another attorney that he should make it a PADI distinctive specialty for his own protection. He did, and we now both teach that official PADI course. How does it protect us? If something were to happen to a student during a course we created and taught on our own, we would have to prove in court that the course we created was safe and within the standards of scuba instruction. In contrast, once the course was approved by PADI, we could simply say that the largest scuba instruction agency in the world has examined the course carefully and approved its standards and content. The burden of proof would shift to the plaintiff to prove that PADI was wrong in its appraisal, and that would be an almost impossible burden of proof.

I did the same thing when I created the course Understanding Overhead Environments, a PADI-approved Distinctive Specialty. In a nutshell, the course teaches the differences among the different kinds of overhead environments, and it teaches what level of training is required for each. It includes the controversial notion that it is OK for divers to enter some specific overheads without special formal training, a contradiction of the common idea that OW divers cannot enter ANY overhead environment without such training. That clearly violates what many people beleive to be standard instruction. I had to work very hard to persuade PADI to approve that course, and they examined its content carefully. It is essential that I have that approval for that course.

There are lots of courses being offered around the world by people who are just trying to find interesting and colorful ways to get people to come in and get some advanced training. In each case, it is for their own good to have their agencies put a stamp of approval on that course. Is it a money grab for the agency? Not at all. In those cases, the only money the agency gets is the fee for processing the certification card. If the student chooses not to get the certification card--and there is usually no point in doing so--the agency does not get a dime. They don't even know it happened.
 
I think stuff like that does a disservice to scuba as a whole. It makes some agencies/shops seem dishonest. I remember when I took open water, I handed the SSI medical waiver (signed by several doctors) to my NAUI instructor. He laughed about it. Until that moment I had no idea there was more than one certification agency. I bet many divers get certified and never figure it out. They assume if their trusted instructor is teaching the class, it must be valuable and normal for divers to take it as they progress in their training.

Obviously it does happen. You are an example. But, I think it's pretty darn unusual (these days) for any prospective diver to not know that there are multiple different agencies. It seems like one of the more common questions that comes up is "should I do PADI or XYZ brand?"

I definitely agree that all these specialties give a huge opportunity for shops/instructors to sell people stuff they don't need. OTOH, if someone is not experienced enough to know that they don't need to take a Boat Diver specialty course, then maybe they would actually benefit from taking a Boat Diver course. Even if it just gives them a shot of confidence before they go on their first boat dive, that can be pretty valuable to some people. For some people, I can imagine that having taken the course might be all the difference between them signing up to go on a charter boat later versus chickening out because the idea of it is too intimidating.

If they don't know that they don't need to take a Zombie Apocalypse Diver course, well, then... I don't feel too bad about it if a shop sells them one.... :D
 
If they don't know that they don't need to take a Zombie Apocalypse Diver course, well, then... I don't feel too bad about it if a shop sells them one.... :D

I just called my local shop and that is required for Master Scuba Diver. Score!!
 
I just called my local shop and that is required for Master Scuba Diver. Score!!

If you complete that one, you will SURELY be a MASTER Scuba Diver! :rofl3:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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