TacOps

[Boater Dan]

Oh, you fire guys are winnies. Try getting out of your boots, duty belt and vest at 100+. The embarrassing part is when we get on scene and fly out of the car half dressed and we get canceled.

Gary D.

I'm reporting you to your son in law!!!!!

 

[CCTX50]

Amen Gary!

olice:

 

[Gary D.]

I'm reporting you to your son in law!!!!!

Ummmm, that's Grandson..

 

[Upstate Scuba OWI]

Oh, you fire guys are winnies. Try getting out of your boots, duty belt and vest at 100+. The embarrassing part is when we get on scene and fly out of the car half dressed and we get canceled.

Gary D.

thanks for posting this Gary. I thought I was the only one that has happened to. I do however have a great news video clips of me in my dry suit half way up and my uniform shirt still on top. Lets just say the sheriff was a little :shocked2: when he saw it on tv.

 

[A34735]

I am still surprised by the idea that an agency that has any concern about the safety of their personnel would allow a person to enter an IDLH environment with 13 cf of air when most teams are exiting the water when their 80 cf cylinders (with 26 cf of air in reserve) reach 1,000 psi.

I wonder if the reason why these vests are hard to find is that the manufacturer has discovered that no one in the public safety community is interested in using them and they have stopped building them.

Looks a good way to carry a pony cylinder to me, and the horse-collar design is reminiscent of ABLJs - some of which would float you face up if unconscious....

 

[BladesRobinson]

I will just point out that the original post and my reply are dated December, 2009.

I believe this is a "dead" post...

Blades

 

[THEOLDMASTER]

Not only is the last post to this thread "dead", so is the whole concept of Public Saving Diving, as far as any "Rescue" element may be involved. Just look at the number of "training exercise" LODD incident's. There is no "rescue" in Dive Rescue.

The hard facts are that any technical skill takes longer to learn and must be practiced with greater regularity to maintain competency. Conducting any activiety in a hazardous environment requires frequent use of learned technical skills. Simple skills (riding a bicycle) are quickly learned and maintained for long periods of time. Police, Fire and other emergency professional don't have the opportunity to use the specialized skills they need to employ underwater, with sufficient regularity to maintain the performance levels needed to operate safety. On the other hand having a specialized unit devoted ONLY to hazardous diving, as the police in the United Kingdom have, reduces death, injury and incidents involving equipment malfunction's due to repeated utilization of the equipment and technical skill sets. Having "line personnel" even think they are qualified because they have a piece of paper or plastic (certification) is, at the least, grand folly and at the most flat out gross irresponsiblity. There certainly are numerous persons and entities who would like to have you think that "certification" is the same as "qualification", don't fall for that.

The use of specialized equipment and knowledge of how and when to use it is essential, but proper and up-to-date skill sets are far more essential. Knowing what NOT to do is more important than knowing what to do. Intutative reactions will kill.

Tell me please what is so important down there that any of you would lose your life and risk your family's well being for? What is it that can't be accomplished quicker and safer with surface techniques and surface equipment? Think, how often you have seen or heard of using "Public safety divers" during flooding conditions? Too many elected and appointed public officials incorrectly equate "divers" with "aquatic incidents", (the old one-size-fits-all thought process) in spite of the conditions NOT being a "diving operation". So few people even know how long the "average" person will survive sub-surface. The response time for most agency's is three (3) or four (4) times the survival period for most drowning deaths. Just look at the medical data.

Wake up, think this through, before your name is listed on the ScubaBoard "Passings" or other LODD list.

 

[BladesRobinson]

Not only is the last post to this thread "dead", so is the whole concept of Public Saving Diving, as far as any "Rescue" element may be involved. Just look at the number of "training exercise" LODD incident's. There is no "rescue" in Dive Rescue.

And in another thread THEOLDMASTER writes... "I've learned that opinons don't make any difference if unsupported with competent facts."


With respect to THEOLDMASTER who has not had the ability to follow threads on this forum (since he is new to ScubaBoard), or subscribe to the IADRS Newsletter, or other journals specific to law enforcement or fire rescue, there are incidents each year that remind public safety divers why they do what they do; underwater rescue, recovery and investigation. Time does not allow me to do all of the research that others should do before making a post on the PSD thread but I list just a few examples...

FROM WLUK-TV
Tiffany Dombrowski, then 7, plunged into Lake Winnebago in a pickup driven by her friend's father. She was submerged in the icy water for 30 minutes before being pulled unresponsive from the water... Tiffany spent five weeks at Children's Hospital of Wisconsin in Milwaukee before returning to her rural St. Nazianz home in March. She had started walking and talking again just a week before returning home. Now, she's full of life and is an active member of the family, which includes two older brothers and a younger brother and sister. Tiffany had about a month of physical therapy and continues to receive occupational and speech therapy, according to her parents. "Physically, she's passed everything," Michael said, referring to an evaluation done prior to the start of the school year.

FROM SCUBABOARD... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/public-safety-divers/394616-our-sunday.html
Girl Who Survived Fernan Lake Accident In Critical Condition - News Story - KXLY Spokane
AND POST #6 FROM GARY D.
Keep the prayers coming folks. She has been upgraded from Critical to Serious but is far from being out of the woods.

FROM SCUBABOARD... Woman rescued from submerged vehicle [Archive] - ScubaBoard
A 27-year-old Evansville woman who was revived by firefighters after being pulled from a truck submerged in the Ohio River Tuesday night is listed in fair condition this afternoon.
Rose Marshall was lifeless when crews broke out the passenger side window of her late-model pickup truck and pulled her to the surface at Dress Plaza about 11 p.m.

Rose Marshall's lifeless body was pulled from her submerged truck around 11 p. m., Tuesday night. Divers had to break a window in order to reach her. "We put her in a boat and started CPR she started spitting up water. Minutes later she was talking to rescue workers," said Dan Grimm of the Evansville Fire Dept.

FROM SCUBABOARD... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/pu...without-heartbeat-followed-full-recovery.html
Two-year-old 'dies' when his heart stops for 40 minutes and he doesn't breathe ... and then makes an amazing recovery

FROM SCUBABOARD... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/pu...t-dive-team-rescues-submerged-5-year-old.html
A 5-year-old boy was in critical condition this afternoon after being rescued from the Jackson Park Yacht Harbor on the South Side.
The boy was taken to Comer Children's Hospital in very critical condition after being taken out of the harbor by divers, said Chicago Fire Department spokesman Chief Joe Roccasalva.
Fire department rescuers pulled the child out of the water after a 7- to 10-minute search, Cooper said.

FROM SCUBABOARD... http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/pu...dive-rescue-team-saves-7-year-old-boy-oh.html
Family members said that Alexander Hanson-Cyrus, 7, was under water for about an hour, 10TV's Lindsey Seavert reported.
He was airlifted to Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus after the Sunday incident near Laurelville, in Hocking County.
AND THREAD #10 ...
After 63 days in the hospital, a Pataskala 7-year-old is home with his family.
Alaxandar Hanson-Cyrus was released Monday afternoon from Children's Hospital in Columbus.
He was hospitalized Jan. 3 after he fell through ice in a Hocking County pond.

Some of the "rescues" performed by public safety divers resulted in 100% recoveries with no neurological deficits, some resulted in patients having various ranges of neurological deficits, and sometimes the victim died after being taken to the hospital. Those agencies that have good divers, good training and good equipment are sometimes rewarded with a "save." Sometimes, agencies are left wondering if they had been 2 or 2 minutes faster, could the child with neurological deficits been saved with zero deficits. Sometimes the teams are just too late but the family and the communities are grateful for the services provided by their local dive team. Certainly, when evidence is recovered underwater and a murderer sent to a prison where they can't kill again, the communities are grateful.

Sure, there are risks associated with public safety diving. A look at the ScubaBoard Accident Forum points out that there are risks associated with DIVING. Has THEOLDMASTER quit diving based on the risks? ... I don't think he has, and in fact, he has taught others how to dive and (using poor logic and some sarcasm; I apologize), exposed others to risk too.

THEOLDMASTER and I can agree on many things, as can most using a sound mind. There are risks associated with public safety diving. There are more recoveries than rescues too. And sadly, there are some public safety personnel conducting dive operations with poor training. In the case of the most recent dive fatality, the diver was seeking additional training in order to minimize risks associated with his job.

Our communities are better because fire fighters, law enforcement personnel, lifeguards, EMS personnel and water rescue/recovery teammates take on tasks that many consider risky, and they work hard to mitigate these risks with good training and good equipment. Going into burning buildings and chasing armed felons is risky too. So is foreign service in the military! Thank goodness our world has dedicated professionals who accept these risks on a daily basis!

We are ALL blessed that we have dedicated soldiers and public safety personnel who place "others before self" in an effort to make our communities, our country and our world a better place. No one is forced to do what THEY choose to do. Those that take on the tasks of a public safety diver do so because they CARE.

Many on this forum care too and that is why we work hard to share information, so others may learn. I thank THEOLDMASTER for his post because it is apparent he cares too. While there are some points he and I may disagree on, I am certain there are MANY points we can agree on. I think we can all agree that:

1) "Certification" is the same as "qualification"
2) The use of specialized equipment and knowledge of how and when to use it is essential, but proper and up-to-date skill sets are far more essential.
3) Knowing what NOT to do is more important than knowing what to do.
4) Intuitive reactions will kill.
5) Technical skills must be practiced with regularity to maintain competency.

And I am certain there are many other points to agree on. And I am hopeful that THEOLDMASTER might also understand why most professionals place emphasis on the "golden hour" and why public safety divers work hard to practice skills regularly in an effort to maintain competency.

Because they CARE...

 

[Gary D.]

Atta boy Blaze!!

 

[pantheraba]

Thanks, Blades, for taking the time to respond. I know rescues are few and far between but when they do work what a gift to the victim and the families. Diligent training helps us have a chance to make a difference...sharing ideas and experiences here is a great way to get exposure to other's ways, thoughts and methods that otherwise would not happen.