"Swim-through" okay for open water divers?

[arew+4]

3Ds, depth, distance, diameter.

For my kids when first certified depth plus distance, less than 80 feet, diameter greater than 10 feet, no wrecks. Also within first half of tank.

For experienced open water divers, I would use the following criteria including for prepared wrecks, diameter 5 foot min, daylight with good visibility thru out, able to see two exits at all times.

 

[Vicko]

Is it the Pognacia cave? If so, there are a couple of videos on YouTube.

No, "only" 5 people died in Poganica. This one is somewhere on the other side of the island and was considered safe.
No one considers Poganica safe, it sucks even with cave training.

 

[rgkv]

After I had just received my AOW certification I went to the Philippines. Was just myself and the DM that day and he asked if I wanted to go through a sunken warship { how do you say no} After I said I'm not qualified he said as long as stick real close to me it will be ok.. was an amazing swim through....

 

[boulderjohn]

After I had just received my AOW certification I went to the Philippines. Was just myself and the DM that day and he asked if I wanted to go through a sunken warship { how do you say no} After I said I'm not qualified he said as long as stick real close to me it will be ok.. was an amazing swim through....

What would the qualification be?

I earlier mentioned my discussion with PADI. It might be interesting to hear what started it.

I was on a dive boat doing a wreck dive in South Florida, and the procedure there was for the DM (who in this case was a technical instructor I knew) to dive down to tie a mooring line to the wreck so divers could descend and ascend on it. When he got back on the boat after setting the line, he gave a textbook perfect dive briefing for the customers. He said that the upper levels of the HUGE wreck had interesting swim-throughs, like the wheelhouse, for those had the proper qualifications.

I called him over and quietly asked him what those proper qualifications might be. He laughed. Of course he couldn't name them. There aren't any. Can anyone in this thread name the certification that will enable you to swim from one side of the wheelhouse to the other? Do you need cave diving ceritification for that?

By saying divers should have the proper qualifications, even though he knew they didn't exist, he was (hopefully) taking the responsibility for any accidents away from the dive operator and leaving it on the diver. He never said it was OK for unqualified divers to make those entries; if they did it, it was on them.

 

[rx7diver]

... Can anyone in this thread name the certification that will enable you to swim from one side of the wheelhouse to the other? ...

Hmmm. I tend to parse this type of thing practically. So, qualification (rather than certification). Ideally (I think), we would want anyone who is deciding whether to dive a swim through, to be able to understand the possible implications of his/her decision. That is, we would want that person to be able to make an informed decision:

Likelihood of a safe outcome if there is a silt-out while the group is moving in line through the wheelhouse or other swim through? (Does the diver even know to assess the silt hazard before entering the wheelhouse?)

Likelihood of a safe outcome if someone in line has his/her mask dislodged, or regulator kicked away, by someone else's fin?

Likelihood of a safe outcome if someone in line loses his/her weight belt and becomes pinned to the overhead?

I already mentioned air sharing, buddy/self rescue, and obstructed/delayed dive in my op.

I personally think things are safest if an open water (recreational) diver sticks to his/her open water training (so, "absolutely no overheads")--until the diver has sufficient knowledge to be able to make an informed decision about (and accept the risks associated with) diving beyond this open water training.

rx7diver

 

[Saboteur]

i could not read most of the comments as i could not open pages 2 or 3 for some reason.

i guess the answer is "it depends".

what type of swim thru are we discussing? is it a brief 5 second swim at 30 feet deep through a wide opening? or a longer swim (like devils throat in coz for example) at 120+ feet?

imho brief shallow swim thru's should be no problem for most divers that received decent training.

something like devils throat however......may be a different story. first, it is bordering on being a cavern (it actually might technically be a cavern) and two, at that depth it may not be appropriate for many divers.

Maybe the term swim through needs to be tossed…. too vague and inocuous. At least in terms of natural formations perhaps using terms like arch or tunnel or tube could be used. Divers should be briefed on exactly what they are in for, length and width and given the option to divert with suggested route so the DM knows where you are if you do. I’ve ditched a lot of tunnels as I don’t want to be in a train of several divers in front. I usually tell the DM I may divert after I have a look just to ensure he knows I may not follow. Shite can happen at anytime. I’ve been in a swim through where the buddy’s air integrated console came off. Luckily it was pretty wide and lots of space to sort it out and exit. I wouldn’t want to be in the middle of 8 or 10 divers in a mess of bubbles and silt.

 

[jadairiii]

What would the qualification be?

1st qualification would be that the diver can fit through the entrance and exit. Depending on the day, that may disqualify quite a few.

 

[boulderjohn]

So, qualification (rather than certification).

I am not sure which word he used. We talked at length later with the manager of the shop. He clearly wanted the divers to understand "certification."

 

[boulderjohn]

Maybe the term swim through needs to be tossed…. too vague and inocuous. At least in terms of natural formations perhaps using terms like arch or tunnel or tube could be used. Divers should be briefed on exactly what they are in for, length and width and given the option to divert with suggested route so the DM knows where you are if you do. I’ve ditched a lot of tunnels as I don’t want to be in a train of several divers in front. I usually tell the DM I may divert after I have a look just to ensure he knows I may not follow. Shite can happen at anytime. I’ve been in a swim through where the buddy’s air integrated console came off. Luckily it was pretty wide and lots of space to sort it out and exit. I wouldn’t want to be in the middle of 8 or 10 divers in a mess of bubbles and silt.

I once had a dream of rating overhead environments the way climbers rate rock climbs. On a much simpler level, it could be more like ski slopes (green circle, blue square, black diamond, double black diamond).

 

[boulderjohn]

1st qualification would be that the diver can fit through the entrance and exit. Depending on the day, that may disqualify quite a few.

To respond with a level of seriousness...

My Understanding Overhead Environments course went through both swim throughs and penetrations in ascending difficulty, listing the charateristics of a planned entry that would need to be evaluated before going in and explaining what kind of training, experience, and equipment would be needed for the entry to be appropriate.