Swim fins for scuba?

[Paladin]

I never thought vintage fins or vintage masks were worth the agony. Modern masks and modern fins are far more comfortable and easier to enjoy than vintage stuff due to advances in chemical sciences since the 50's and 1960's.

I dare anyone to make three dives a day for a week straight with a hard rubber mask skirt and the high volume discomfort of an old Voit or USD mask. I don't know about anyone else but I hate it. Likewise, I dare anyone to enjoy the wood like stiffness of an old mono VOIT UDT, USD Rocket I or Duck Feet model. The Lightning Jet is a little better and will definitely move some water but I can get so much more comfort and enjoyability from my Hollis F1's and they do not look out of place at all using a double hose and a steel plate, steel tank, cotton harness and no BCD.

The ultra low volume Technisub Micromask or Scubapro Frameless feels like leak free butter on my face due to the super soft silicone.

Not everything was better in those misty days of yore.

I still dive with the old style oval mask. Never seemed uncomfortable to me.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I'm not sure that frog kicking is a difficult with a long freedive fin. I don't normally frog kick, but I know it can be done with long fins.

While I have never tried to frog kick with the long "freediving" Fins, but have used and worn out two pairs. They work great for Scuba diving IF you are not frog kicking. In my opinion, because of their length, they are not appropriate for frog kicking, as they will place a lot of strain on both the knee and ankle.

The long fins were originally developed for finswimming competition before the monofin came into use for tinswimming. The long fins were also used in underwater orienteering competitions. Both of these were sanctioned sport competitions of the World Underwater Federation (CMAS).

The frog kick was originally developed for cave diving where it is imperative to control both buoyancy and not kick down so as to disturb the very fine bottom sediment, causing a blackout, possible disorientation, and the possibility of running out of air before finding the way out of the cave. This frog kick has become "the" kick taught because technical divers like it for the above reason. But frog kick is a very inefficient kick for actually propelling the diver forward. I have seen divers practicing their frog kick in our local pool, and they barely move forward. In any kind of current, they would move backward.

So use The long fins with Scuba, but not with the frog kick, is my recommendation.

John

 

[NAM001]

My first fins were rocket fins by USD. Expensive .... 20$ . I could leave teh others in the dust using them. I ried them a while back and there is just no propulson to them at all. The look like half sized jet fins.

 

[MAKO Spearguns]

While I have never tried to frog kick with the long "freediving" Fins, but have used and worn out two pairs. They work great for Scuba diving IF you are not frog kicking. In my opinion, because of their length, they are not appropriate for frog kicking, as they will place a lot of strain on both the knee and ankle.

The long fins were originally developed for finswimming competition before the monofin came into use for tinswimming. The long fins were also used in underwater orienteering competitions. Both of these were sanctioned sport competitions of the World Underwater Federation (CMAS).

The frog kick was originally developed for cave diving where it is imperative to control both buoyancy and not kick down so as to disturb the very fine bottom sediment, causing a blackout, possible disorientation, and the possibility of running out of air before finding the way out of the cave. This frog kick has become "the" kick taught because technical divers like it for the above reason. But frog kick is a very inefficient kick for actually propelling the diver forward. I have seen divers practicing their frog kick in our local pool, and they barely move forward. In any kind of current, they would move backward.

So use The long fins with Scuba, but not with the frog kick, is my recommendation.

John

John:

Thanks for your expert opinion on this matter. I'm not an expert on Scuba and definitely not going to question your opinion.

I seem to recall seeing some video of a scuba diver frog kicking in freedive fins. Possibly they are not the optimal fins if your primary propulsion method is a frog kick? I really don't know.

With a quick search of Youtube, I did find this video of a scuba diver doing the back kick in long freedive fins.

Not sure if it is exactly relevant to the discussion however.

Thanks
Dano

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Here is underwater orienteering using the monofin.


Here I see the Junior World Bifin finswimming competition:


The long fins were developed in the 1980s by Eastern block nations and European nations for finswimming competitions. I have a book which describes how to make them out of fiberglass (the early ones were hone-made). As the former Finswimming Director for the Undewater Society of America, I was able to see this developing in the 1980s. The theory behind the long fins is that they form an "S" shape in the water to push the water to the rear. They were not developed for a frog kick, and while they may be able to be used, the leverage of the long fins will place quite a strain on the ankle and knee when used with the frog kick.

John