Suunto Vytec and USN Tables compared

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MuddyFox,

Then I would probably use my first try to answer your question, since I pressed the ascent button rapidly enough to reach the first stop (40fsw) as fast as possible without lighting the "SLOW" warning symbol.


I have heard divers use the phrase "overly conservative" when talking about computers. I think this is an interesting "catch phrase" and warrants a new thread. I'll add a link to this post in just a sec....
 
Well...a hungry computer down the line somewhere ate my thread start about "overly conservative" and I don't have the time right now to recreate.


So I'll ask here...

MuddyFox,.....I'd like to hear from you (and the others) why
  1. you consider the Suunto line to be overly conservative and
  2. you might consider overly conservative computers (in general) to be a bad thing.
 
I really don't share the opinion that Suuntos are overly conservative. In fact the point of my post above was to gather proof that Suuntos really aren't as bad as some folks make them seem. More to the point, conservatism is an excellent thing. There could come a point, I suppose, when a computer becomes so conservative that it hinders the joy of a diving experience. Of course, DCS can hinder a diving experience too. :wink:

My knowledge of Suuntos comes from four sources.

1. My Dive Buddy's Mosquito
2. A Dive Instructor
3. ScubaBoard
4. Suunto Manuals

I've heard negative comments regarding Suuntos from both #1 and #3.

My buddy's mosquito is what started my curiosity. He often ties his mosquito to the anchor line while my computer still has decent NDL time left. This usually happens on one of our repeat dives of the day. Of course, compared to the Zeagle Status II I dive, most computers will be conservative. Which is one reason I am curious about Suuntos, as they seem to be excellent computers and I'm afraid that this Zeagle is going to get me in trouble. But, it is a computer I can take to Bikini and the Suuntos are not.

My buddy hates his Mosquito, and told me that Vipers are better. This demonstrates his lack of understanding of his computer, which is why he has to tie it off (which I tell him he shouldn't do anyway). All Suuntos use the RGBM algorithm and can only be adjusted to add more conservatism (save the Vytec which has 50%RGBM mode). Thus, the Viper will behave the same.

It occurs to me that my buddy is an underwater cowboy, and doesn't understand that when he violates ascent rates, profiles, mandatory/optional safety stops, etc the RGBM algorithm will penalize you for it. Especially on subsequent dives. I've heard similar complaints on this board, which caught my attention. However after a bit of research, I realize that the common denominator here is bad diving practices. Suuntos, if you know how they work, will actually make a novice diver better. I believe that those who have had bad experience with Suuntos aren't diving within the parameters it sets.

As far as initial vs. subsequent NDL's are concerned, my instructor did an in depth comparison of 4 computers: VR3, Nitek3, Mosquito, and Status II. He never violated the Suunto parameters, thus the NDL's were very similar during the initial dives. It was the deco times that were the most noticeable difference. I'm not sure that the Suuntos are suitable for serious deco diving... which many would argue that no computer is. Which is why I am actually considering buying a Suunto Vytec... it has a nifty gauge mode complete with stop watch. However, I'm not sure I can take it to Bikini.

The purpose of this book is to explain my thoughts on why I should purchase the Zeagle Status II I am using vs buying a Vytec. The Status II will be $150 less, can be taken to Bikini, and is enjoyably liberal with no lockouts. The down-side to it is that I can't find much feed-back on it. I know they like it at Bikini. I just don't want it to get me bent. The Vytec on the other hand would be an equally usable rec computer, however I can't take it to Bikini and the instructor told me the 4 Vytecs he has seen since their inception have all failed. Yikes.

So in conclusion:

1. I argue that Suuntos aren't overly conservative, they just aren't understood.

2. Conservatism is always good.
 
Originally posted by MacLeod
MuddyFox

OK, I give up ...why can't you?:confused:

Because with the serious diving done at Bikini that thing will keep you hanging all day.

Tom
 
A quick hop over to the Bikini Atoll website found this page http://www.bikiniatoll.com/fabioletter.html where the head divemaster lists computers that based on their experience are both recommended and not recommended for their diving.

To quote the information on the page:
pay close attention to the computer you are bringing. Most dive computers on the market are not designed for staged decompression diving and will lock-up on you or go out of range. This is because the manufacturers are afraid of the potential liability that can arise from divers performing staged decompression dives without supervision or training.

Two things you will note is that they like the DiveRite Nitek3. The other is that the Vytec is not on the list.

I agree that the Nitek3 is a solid computer and possibly one of the reasons the Bikini divers like it is due to it's gas switching capability (since according to the page I referenced above, you will do a gas switch at 20 feet, and are allowed to do one deeper if you desire to take a deco bottle on your person).

The Vytec is probably not on their list due to it's relative newness.

But by virtue of historical use of the Nitek3 and my untrained personal opinion of the Vytec, both computers appear to be allowed for use in staged decompression diving and will not lock up on us.

This bit of our discussion has piqued my curiosity about what the Bikinians think (I too desire to one day dive there). I'll send an email to them letting know we are having this discussion and see if I can get some feedback from them.
 
Here is the text of my inquiry to Bikini Divers
sent to bikini@ntamar.com (the contact email for technical questins listed on the www.BikiniAtoll.com website)

Howdy!!!

I am one of the moderators of www.ScubaBoard.com (one of the more populated and active internet discussion boards on scuba diving). In our forum on Diving Computers, Gauges, and Instruments, a discussion has started on the computers the Dive Bikini operators will allow on your dives.

From your web page describing what type of gear to bring, you include a list of computers that you both recommend and don't recommend. We also see you have taken a particular liking to the Dive Rite Nitek3.

Our particular discussion is regarding the latest offering from Suunto, the Vytec. More specifically, would you allow a diver to use the Vytec when diving the Bikini wrecks?

I would like to invite you to join us over at ScubaBoard.com and participate in our discussion. Many of our divers (including me) desire to discover the wonders that await by diving on the USS Saratoga and the other wrecks that make up your unique diving site.

I hope you will join us. If I can provide any additional information about my question or ScubaBoard, please reply to this email.

Best Regards,

Mike Farlow
"TexasMike" on Scubaboard.com
 
Originally posted by WreckWriter
Because with the serious diving done at Bikini that thing will keep you hanging all day.

Tom
That's a good possibility. Now that I know how to run the SIMDIVE feature on the Vytec, I'd like to get the profile info on a dive to the USS Saratoga, and using the EAN Best Mix table, see what the Vytec comes up with when I use Nitrox for the bottom gas, a richer mixture for the mid-level deco, and 100% at 20 fsw.

Again, more for curiosity than real, serious dive planning.
 
Originally posted by TexasMike
But by virtue of historical use of the Nitek3 and my untrained personal opinion of the Vytec, both computers appear to be allowed for use in staged decompression diving and will not lock up on us.

I believe the Vytec and Nitek 3 WILL lock out after violation, I know the Vyper will. Very few will not, VR3 being one, HS Explorer being another. Not sure about Cochrans.

I do find the list on Bikini's page very interesting. I wonder how much of it is based on who they happen to be a dealer for?

Tom
 

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