Suunto Vyper

[TexasMike]

Joe...

What about doing what I was thinking of if I was to upgrade to a different computer? Place the old one displaying the pips on a retractor attached to your shoulder harness and us it as a backup and as additional data?

 

[joewr]

Mike,

I have one computer and really wanted to have a backup on hand...I think you just hit the correct button! I have seen a neat little clip that allows one to attach a computer like my Matrix to the high pressure hose. That way you can see both computers at once. I do not know if this fits a DIR scheme...but I will not lose sleep over that.

You know, when I started this sport I vowed not to become a gearhead...so much for vows!

Joewr

 

[Warhammer]

Joe...I was aware of this when I bought them, but I didn't fully understand the effects. When you and I talked about them at length a while back, I had yet to do a dive with them where it made any difference. But on my last trip to Panama City, I made several dives that really pushed it's limits. knowing this was going to be the case, we did long stops at 15ft just be on the safe side. That's when I really took notice of what it wasn't telling me, but didn't think much it since it's a rather conservative computer to start with. I've since obtained an interface for them and have downloaded the profiles into Dive Manager. I was shocked at just how saturated I was on some of these dives. On one dive, 2 of the tissues were at 94 and another was at 91, according to the software, when I ascended. That's cutting it a little to close for my comfort. I don't understand why Suunto choose to use the CTB instead of a nitrogen loading graph, espeacially since the computers give you your NDLs in numerical form anyway. Maybe it has something to do with the RGBM, I don't know. But I'll probably dial it down a tad before doing a series of deep dives again.

Gearhead.....When I started I thought all I'd need would be the basic gear. Boy was I wrong. There are all sorts of toys that I just gotta have, but I'm afraid the Mrs isn't going to allow any more toys this year. Bummer!

 

[mattiedread]

I have a Vyper with 47 dives on it, and I've read all the literature, or should I say mis-read... I thought the graph on the left side (CBT) stood for Cumulative Bottom Time, and wondered why it dropped so drastically when one ascends a few meters... I don't know that much about deco, but, a total dive fanatic at my LDS told me about a dive where his first deco stop was at 80 feet (I do know they get progresively lower). I incorrectly took away from that that is possible to off gas at great depths and that is why the CBT dropped from yellow to low green when you go from 80->30 ft in 2 or three minutes.... I thought you were off gasing rapidly... I did not realize the computer was recalcing to the new depth. That is inefficient (not taking the previous gas accumulataion into account), and, dangerous. The measurement, is in effect, useless except for descent.

Thanks, as my wife doesn't have a computer, I'm slowly doing research for buying another... was thinking about a Cobra (my LDS only carries Suunto), but I like the idea of known N saturation (well, at least a model of).

Another perfect example of the experience on this board proving to be quite valuable to a newbie... I always check that graph as a measure of how much longer I can stay at a depth before 'stepping up' a few meters... And I was completely wrong. I'm thinking of a day in Coz and my heart is pounding... I may have been close to DCS... Now I really want the software (dive should still be on my comp) to see just how saturated I was.

Thanks alot... someone promote WH to regulator...

 

[joewr]

Folks,

Look at how all this started: Iguana Dawn wanted to get himself a new computer and, now, I am the one who will be poorer. I knew that there was something sinister about that reptilian reporter.

At any rate, I really like my N2 sat dial on my Matrix and refer to it rather regularly. Actually, it is what I use when I make my safety stops. I like to hang around at 20' or so until it ticks into the green. That might take more than 3 mins...

I also like to keep an eye on it whilst deep diving so I know when I am on the verge of going into deco. I have to look in my Suunto lit. to see how one does that on the Cobra--or I can wait a few hours for Warhammer the Informative to clue me in. That sounds like a good idea. WH, you are on cue.

Joewr

 

[Mario S Caner]

Here is another great computer everyone should be more than happy with. It's got all of the feautes you should look for in a great air integrated computer with a hose.


Sea you in the Deep Blue!

 

[Warhammer]

Originally posted by joewr
Folks,

Look at how all this started: Iguana Dawn wanted to get himself a new computer and, now, I am the one who will be poorer. I knew that there was something sinister about that reptilian reporter.

At any rate, I really like my N2 sat dial on my Matrix and refer to it rather regularly. Actually, it is what I use when I make my safety stops. I like to hang around at 20' or so until it ticks into the green. That might take more than 3 mins...

I also like to keep an eye on it whilst deep diving so I know when I am on the verge of going into deco. I have to look in my Suunto lit. to see how one does that on the Cobra--or I can wait a few hours for Warhammer the Informative to clue me in. That sounds like a good idea. WH, you are on cue.

Joewr

It works great at depth Joe. You'll have 2 indicators of NDL at all times while on the dive. The first one will be a numerical reading in right-center of the screen. The CTB graph will also tell you the same info on the left with 8 green notches, 2 yellows and 1 red. When you get to within 5 minutes of your NDL the last yellow notch on the graph will fill, if you stay to the NDL reaches 0, then the red one will fill and you'll now be in a deco dive. The confusion comes in when you ascend a little. Say you do a dive to 120ft and you stay at that depth till you get within 5 minutes of your NDL, then you ascend to 70ft. The Cobra/Vyper will recalculate your NDLs for 70ft while at the same time taking your time at 120ft into account. As a result, the CBT graph will go back into the green until you get within 10 minutes of your NDL at your present depth. The process will repeat itself as you ascend/descend shallower/deeper. The trouble is that as long as you have more than 10 minutes of NDL at any given depth, the graph will be in the green, no matter how long you have been down nor how close you came to your NDL previously on the dive or how much nitrogen you have absorbed. As long as you have 10 minutes or more of NDL at any given depth, the graph will be in the green. If you ascend to somewhere in the 30ft range or shallower it will be way into the green cause you have alot of NDL at shallower depths. You'll have no reference as to how much nitrogen you have taken on, you'll only know how long you can stay at your current depth without going into deco. The only time you'll see the loading is when you download the dive into Dive Manager.

I can't, for the life of me, decide why Suunto thought it was better to provide the NDLs in 2 forms rather than use the graph to show the calculated nitrogen loading. But I'm sure there was a reason. Theoretically, the computer provides you with ampel info and as long as you dive within it's limits and do the reccommended stops, your suppose to be in the clear.

I'm going to load some of my profiles into some other software and see how it compares to Suunto's when I get a chance. I'm also going to try and get my hands on another computer to dive allong side my Cobra next time I do some deep dives and compare them. Interestingly, I took the average depth and used it to work the dives on the RDP. On the dive where Dive Manager showed the most loading, I ended that dive in the U pressure group with only 2 minutes of NDL to spare, according to the tables.

Also take into account that even though the Cobra/Vyper provides deco information it was never intended to be a deco computer nor does Suunto reccommend that it be used as such. In fact, Suunto recommends that you start your ascent towards the surface as you approach the yellow (or less than 10 minutes NDL) on the CTB graph. But that's sort of a double standard in my opinion cause if you follow that recommendation, you can't dive deeper than 120ft. And at 120ft the Cobra only gives you 10 minutes of NDL, so it would be blow and go dive. Of course that's on air and it would be different for nitrox.


I don't mean to turn anyone away from the Suunto computers. I like mine very much and would recommend it. I just wanted to provide a little feedback in some of the areas I feel they are lacking.

 

[joewr]

Warhammer the Knowledgeable,

Thanks--when I first saw the Cobra, I thought those green, yellow and red ticks meant the same thing as those on my Matrix... Well, it does seem like they are partially different, but not a major "flaw"...

I do not do THAT much deep diving, but enough to want to see that N2 ads and to thoroughly understand what I am looking at. To be honest, that Suunto feature is a little strange to me, but who am I to quibble with success...

I probably will have my Matrix along anyhow and use the N2 ads indicator on it. But, now I have to make sure that it will not violate the Cobra algorithm and lock me out! Egad, what happened to the simple life I was seeking?

So, if my other duties do not take up too much time, I will head to the dive shop and look at all this stuff one more time. And now, Mario chimes in with yet another option--is he part of the conspiracy, too?

Thanks for the info. As usual, you have been more than helpful.

Joewr (the Now-More-Informed)

 

[Warhammer]

The Oceanic is another great computer, as Mario says. It's also one that provides a nitrogen loading bar graph and it's a bit more agressive than the Suunto's. I looked long and hard at it when I bought my Cobra. I compared them back and forth for months on end. One day I was set on it, the next on the Cobra. My final decision was based on the fact that the Oceanic is more expensive and hasn't got sh*t on the looks of the Cobra. Man the Cobra is sweet looking computer and it comforms well in the palm of your hand. Plus the Suunto software is really really nice.

 

[mattiedread]

take into account total bottom your previous depths. It didn't seem to make sense to me that they wouldn't take the whole dive into consideration.

Although, I'm liking that matrix more and more... will probably go back and forth for months before I make a decision.