Suunto Vyper **SERIOUS BUG** in CNS O2 computation
- Thread starter Genesis
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What is it on your unit?
They may have fixed it. If so, the obvious solution is for the shop where I got mine to swap the unit.
(My Vytec - NOT VYPER, VYTEC - behaves properly. My Vyper does NOT, and if I ascend immediately at a normal 30fpm rate after the alarm yells at me from 107', I have (1) incurred no deco obligation, and (2) have only two bars cleared from the CNS clock when I surface with a 3 minute safety stop. This is clearly erroneous and makes the OTU/CNS computation worthless if you invade the region close to the MOD of the mix you set on the Vyper, even if you only do so momentarily.)
Again, the Vyper toxes me out on a 32% mix, at 107', in fifteen minutes. That is within the NDL!
They may have fixed it. If so, the obvious solution is for the shop where I got mine to swap the unit.
(My Vytec - NOT VYPER, VYTEC - behaves properly. My Vyper does NOT, and if I ascend immediately at a normal 30fpm rate after the alarm yells at me from 107', I have (1) incurred no deco obligation, and (2) have only two bars cleared from the CNS clock when I surface with a 3 minute safety stop. This is clearly erroneous and makes the OTU/CNS computation worthless if you invade the region close to the MOD of the mix you set on the Vyper, even if you only do so momentarily.)
Again, the Vyper toxes me out on a 32% mix, at 107', in fifteen minutes. That is within the NDL!
The Cobra probably doesn't have the problem.
My Vytec doesn't have the problem either!
My VYPER does.
While the Cobra, Vyper and Vytec all look similar from the outside and also appear to have the same display, there are internal firmware differences (both Cobra and Vytec are AI, for example.)
You say that the problem doesn't occur, but your "test computer" isn't the one that has the actual problem!
Dive Manager doesn't have the problem either. Its a firmware bug in the computer!
Try again.
My Vytec doesn't have the problem either!
My VYPER does.
While the Cobra, Vyper and Vytec all look similar from the outside and also appear to have the same display, there are internal firmware differences (both Cobra and Vytec are AI, for example.)
You say that the problem doesn't occur, but your "test computer" isn't the one that has the actual problem!
Dive Manager doesn't have the problem either. Its a firmware bug in the computer!
Try again.
figures... so only you can confirm the presence of the problem...
right??? Did you buy it from an authorized dealer? I bet not... You probably got a defective unit...
I will drop by the dive shop today and do the same with a vyper...
Personally, I don't see why you would use 32% at that depth for that amount of time anyway... A smart diver would use air if they planned a dive for 15 minutes at that depth... or at least a leaner mix to help save some CNS clock time. Most guys air (or nitrox) won't last more than 15 minutes at that depth anyway. It is a Maximum operating depth... not safe or recommended for multiple dives anyway. I guess you knew all this though. On my cobra, I stayed down at 107 for 15 minutes and had two green bars left. I pretty much maxed out the NDL so a healthy surface interval is in order anyway. The same mix at 100 feet... I ran out of air and it became a deco dive and the O2 graph was only on the second bar.
Genesis... you only prove our point... you think you know it all... which computers have what problem. What makes you think that if a problem does exist, that only the vyper is affected? You make yourself look silly an awful lot of times. Bad dive planning can not be overcome by any dive computer. Why not use 28%? That mix at 112 feet only has a PO2 of 1.24... Seem like a much better idea. 1.4 is the recommended max PO2 and 107 was the MOD for 32% so why do you expect to be able to have all the time in the world? Why push the limits when there's really no reason to? Didn't you learn that in Nitrox class? Every gas, not the dive computer, has its limitations. Your vyper seems to know these simple facts. Its there to protect you from yourself. Heck 30% at 105 is only 1.26... go figure that on your cns clock...and maybe your Vyper...
right??? Did you buy it from an authorized dealer? I bet not... You probably got a defective unit...
I will drop by the dive shop today and do the same with a vyper...
Personally, I don't see why you would use 32% at that depth for that amount of time anyway... A smart diver would use air if they planned a dive for 15 minutes at that depth... or at least a leaner mix to help save some CNS clock time. Most guys air (or nitrox) won't last more than 15 minutes at that depth anyway. It is a Maximum operating depth... not safe or recommended for multiple dives anyway. I guess you knew all this though. On my cobra, I stayed down at 107 for 15 minutes and had two green bars left. I pretty much maxed out the NDL so a healthy surface interval is in order anyway. The same mix at 100 feet... I ran out of air and it became a deco dive and the O2 graph was only on the second bar.
Genesis... you only prove our point... you think you know it all... which computers have what problem. What makes you think that if a problem does exist, that only the vyper is affected? You make yourself look silly an awful lot of times. Bad dive planning can not be overcome by any dive computer. Why not use 28%? That mix at 112 feet only has a PO2 of 1.24... Seem like a much better idea. 1.4 is the recommended max PO2 and 107 was the MOD for 32% so why do you expect to be able to have all the time in the world? Why push the limits when there's really no reason to? Didn't you learn that in Nitrox class? Every gas, not the dive computer, has its limitations. Your vyper seems to know these simple facts. Its there to protect you from yourself. Heck 30% at 105 is only 1.26... go figure that on your cns clock...and maybe your Vyper...
You can confirm it too, IF YOU HAVE A VYPER.
Rich over on SDN first reported this one on a board, and I confirmed it. That's two separate Vypers with different S/Ns, two separate sets of fingers.
That was enough for me to raise it as an issue.
This is a manufacturing defect. Defective my tail; its a firmware problem, and is apparently replicated in at least all of them from a given range of manufacturing dates, and maybe all of them entirely.
And yes, it came from an "authorized dealer." We'll see if they voluntarily deal with it (e.g. replace it with something without the problem) or if I got exactly nothing in purchasing it from an authorized dealer.
Rich over on SDN first reported this one on a board, and I confirmed it. That's two separate Vypers with different S/Ns, two separate sets of fingers.
That was enough for me to raise it as an issue.
This is a manufacturing defect. Defective my tail; its a firmware problem, and is apparently replicated in at least all of them from a given range of manufacturing dates, and maybe all of them entirely.
And yes, it came from an "authorized dealer." We'll see if they voluntarily deal with it (e.g. replace it with something without the problem) or if I got exactly nothing in purchasing it from an authorized dealer.
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ONLY two CNS bars cleared ? Under what algorithm / CNS clock rules should ANY have cleared ?
Perhaps you are getting worked up over the wrong problem. The CNS-clock-to-warp-speed at 105' vs 107' is a minor fudge factor in the direction of safety. Erroneously clearing CNS clock early is dangerous.
should result in the CNS clock decreasing over time.
It appears to behave correctly in this regard.
The "105 to 107 fudge" is NOT "minor". There is a published exposure time for PPO2s of 1.5 and 1.6 - which you have not exceeded. You haven't even exceeded 1.4 at that point, nor have you received a PPO2 warning from the computer.
Adding a 1% "measurement error" to the entered FO2 when the MOD is calculated can be rationally defended. This cannot.
It appears to behave correctly in this regard.
The "105 to 107 fudge" is NOT "minor". There is a published exposure time for PPO2s of 1.5 and 1.6 - which you have not exceeded. You haven't even exceeded 1.4 at that point, nor have you received a PPO2 warning from the computer.
Adding a 1% "measurement error" to the entered FO2 when the MOD is calculated can be rationally defended. This cannot.
By the way, your vyper doesn't have a copy of your Nitrox tables in it and there's nothing that says Suunto has to follow those tables...
28% 1.3.... 45 minutes bottom time at 107 feet... still only using 3 bars of the OLF... and ran out of air about 30 minutes ago...
28% 1.3.... 45 minutes bottom time at 107 feet... still only using 3 bars of the OLF... and ran out of air about 30 minutes ago...
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