Suunto Tech RGBM dive profiles...

[tomfcrist]

Go talk to anyone that has done 1000' dives on any algorithm...ask them if they have ever been bent.

 

[KevinNM]

Iirc, RBGM was developed to support NEST diving after a lost nuclear weapon and then flying out very fast. It had some very specific characteristics that general purpose deco algorithms don't have.

 

[KenGordon]

Starting with suuntos own literature http://ns.suunto.com/pdf/Suunto_Dive_Fused_RGBM_brochure_EN.pdf

Let's examine some very shocking things they r try to brush off in a hurry. "... depending on diver behavior suuntos model will adjust M - values downward... ¡¡¡NOTE THAT M VALUES ARE ONLY RELEVANT TO THE DECOMPRESSION MODEL SO IT ISNT IMPROTANT TO INDERSTAND THEM!!!"

It's actually pretty important to understand m values if you plan on having an informed talk about decompression

M values are mathematically constants relating to pressures at depth and the effects gradient pressure changes have on the body. THE MODEL HAS TO ALTER A ******* CONSTANT TO PRODUCE A RESULT THAT IS EVEN CLOSE TO SAFE BECAUSE RAW RGBM BENDS DIVERS.

Also the Dan and NEDU studies that completely discredited any benefit of bubble models and actually showed and increased incidence of dcs from bubble models.

Have you ever done a deco dive with a Suunto? Or with a buddy with a Suunto?

I have done lots of dives with Suunto computers and GF computers together. Diving something like 45/80 or 45/85 (or 90/90 for that matter *) on a 45m 30 minute bottom time you get clear of deco within 5 minutes of the Suunto. If you add on a 3 minute safety stop on the end of the GF one then maybe there is 2 minutes difference.

For my diving (<60m <100minutes) VPM, GF and Suunto all come out with more or less the same dive unless you dial in wild parameters.

Ken

* my 90/90 computer is not seeing true ppo2 so when I blast up o2 for deco it gets behind the one reading the cells.

 

[KenGordon]

For some (yet) unknown reason, I am unable to install Suunto DM5 software on my computer. So I need little help.

Can someone please, post several dive profiles using Suunto Tech RGBM. I want to know what are the differences in P -2, P -1, P0, P1, P2 dive profiles. Using only air (no nitrox switching for deco). On 55m or 62m 1min bottom time.

I would do it myself, but that software has mind of it's own...

For what ascent and descent rats? Those will dominate a dive like that.

Off the top of my head you will end up with a small (<10) number of extra minutes deco with P2.

 

[MilosDj]

Thanks Ken, I solved the installation problem.

 

[LandonL]

Is there any legit evidence showing either VPM or RGBM bending divers more frequently than dissolved gas models as it relates to technical diving? Nope.

The answer to that question is yes.

The evidence is there in the NEDU study, as well as a French study I believe.

Here it is quite eloquently explained with pictures and graphs.

Just because you choose to not believe the evidence in front of you, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Why is it that NAUI instructors seem incapable of understanding science the minute RGBM comes up? I am not trying to be mean here, I am a NAUI Tech instructor as well, it just seems every time I see someone trying to refute the mountain of evidence against it, its always a fellow NAUI instructor.

The evidence is clear, bubble models (VPM, RGBM, BVM, whatever) are flawed and not as efficient as gas content models for decompression diving.

 

[tomfcrist]

Cute reply...did you notice that NEDU didn't use RGBM? Or that in all the fancy diagrams Simon has in his power points he doesn't use RGBM?

 

[LandonL]

Well thank you. lol

Did you notice that the rules of physics carry over regardless of the model, that the same principles can be applied, and that the fancy diagrams prove a general point about bubble models, whether it be VPM, RGBM, or BVM?
Also, he did reference RGBM in the spoken part.

If I throw a red apple off the building and it hits the ground in 13.8 seconds, I don't have to throw a green apple off the roof to see the same thing.

 

[PfcAJ]

Well thank you. lol

Did you notice that the rules of physics carry over regardless of the model, that the same principles can be applied, and that the fancy diagrams prove a general point about bubble models, whether it be VPM, RGBM, or BVM?
Also, he did reference RGBM in the spoken part.

If I throw a red apple off the building and it hits the ground in 13.8 seconds, I don't have to throw a green apple off the roof to see the same thing.

I only eat green apples. A test on red apples isn't applicable to tests on green apples. Green apples fall more efficiently, I know this because green apples fall more efficiently. There are been hundreds of green-apple-falls in my database and out of off of them the apples have always fallen.

There's nothing wrong with innocent green apples.

 

[100days-a-year]

Happy to see that 20 years later, tech discussions mostly populated by my fellow Richard Craniums.
Smarmy,snarky,satirical,supercilious smart a$$e$.

My database suggests that a fit,non smoking runner who eats lots of red meat,chocolate and drinks gallons of decaf and sugarfree sodas can do tbousands of dives safely using any algorithm even doing multi day multi dive,reverse profiles,bounces and other stupid things, YMMV .
My beef with all things Suunto,is on repetitive diving where in side by side comparison always have had stops deeper and longer than seemed necessary for said diver above.