Surface rescues - Hogarthian style rig

[Sas]

The rescue course is supposed to teach some thinking and decision making. If the diver is not breathing, the odds are (see later note) that he or she is not circulating, either. In that case, rescue breathing does no good whatsoever, and, as Peter suggests, your proper decision is to get the victim ASAP to a hard surface for CPR and (hopefully) an AED. In that case, removing gear is indeed a waste of valuable time, and the diver should be towed as quickly as possible to a hard surface.

Yes this ties in to all of the first aid training I have had with the exception of my SSI rescue course. There was a LOT of emphasis on getting someone out of their rig as well as rescue breaths, and NO discussion of why this might not always be appropriate. Personally if I had a victim that was not breathing I would forget about that (as long as they were buoyant) and then get them back to the boat or to shore as fast as possible to start CPR. If I was no where near a surface (this is rare to never for me), I would do rescue breaths. If someone is not breathing but circulating, this is not going to last very long anyway, so the priority would still be getting them back to shore/the boat.

On my most recent rescue course I was using a hog rig, and it is difficult to get someone out of it, though people were much better at this even just the second time around. I usually advise people I dive with if they need to get me out of my gear to cut it off.

 

[boulderjohn]

Yes this ties in to all of the first aid training I have had with the exception of my SSI rescue course. There was a LOT of emphasis on getting someone out of their rig as well as rescue breaths, and NO discussion of why this might not always be appropriate. .

This was the way it was in the old PADI course (when I took it), but they changed a couple of years ago. I would bet that a lot of instructors are still teaching the old way, not going into why you would use one method or another.

I can't speak for SSI.

 

[Sas]

This was the way it was in the old PADI course (when I took it), but they changed a couple of years ago. I would bet that a lot of instructors are still teaching the old way, not going into why you would use one method or another.

I can't speak for SSI.

Ok fair enough. My SSI course was in October 2008 so perhaps it has changed since then but yes we were only taught one rescue method. In later training there was more emphasis on different responses for different issues.

 

[OceanEd]

Peter Guy:

I think that whether or not to get the victim and you out of your dive rigs depends on the situation as has been stated here. There are some situations when I would get the person out of their gear and even get mine off also.

First, if the victim did not have a full 3 mil wetsuit or thicker I would leave the BC on to provide buoyancy. If the victim did have a suit that would provide the necessary buoyancy then there are a couple of other things I would consider.

If I am going to have to transport them a long distance without help or without a boat coming to me then I would strip gear because I feel it is much easier to transport while giving mouth to mouth this way.

If I was going to have to get the unconscious person out of the water at the other end of a long swim, by myself, then I would strip the equipment at the beginning because I am gong to have to strip it anyway towards the end. There is not any way I can get a person up into a boat by myself if they have on all their gear. Likewise, if I was going to have to do a shore exit with an
unconscious diver I would strip their tank and BC before trying to either go through surf or drag them up on a beach or rocks. So if I am going to strip the stuff anyway I would rather do it at the beginning because it makes the whole process easier.

Another case may be with a large victim and a small rescuer. Let's face it, rescuing someone is HARD at the best of times and hyperventilation can be a real problem. I want to minimize this by reducing drag & eliminating mass that I have to haul through the water.

I think you need to look at all the variables and be trained in your Rescue Class to choose the right options and this can be done if you get to practice all the different ways it can be done, not just one way.

 

[halocline]

I had this same situation, because I did my rescue class and DM scenarios in a hog rig. I was able to do the rescue scenarios without removing my gear, because even PADI acknowledges that removal of your own gear is the lowest priority. I did demonstrate the rescue sequence exactly as PADI teaches using a jacket BC.

I believe that the day will come when PADI switches from providing in-water rescue breathes while towing to just towing in the interest of getting the victim out of the water. The prevailing opinion from medical professionals seems to be that this would, on balance, be a better procedure. If I were involved in an actual rescue with an unconscious, non-breathing diver, I would just tow as fast as I could if reasonably close to shore/boat. But that's me, not the "current" PADI way.

Getting back to gear removal, the main point of it is to prepare the victim for easier removal from the water, so it's much more important to remove the victim's gear than your own. Let's assume for conversation that we're talking about evacuation to a boat, in which case you should have assistance when you arrive so that you do not have to get out of the water immediately, and can take a moment to get your own gear off once the victim is in the control of someone else. It only takes a few seconds to remove a hog rig, but it does take me two hands. A shore exit is a little more problematic, but what I did was drag the victim up, then ditch my rig. I'd have no hesitation about cutting a strap if I though it was the fastest way to remove the rig. A good shrug and quick push of one chest D-ring on land does it for me.

I had an excellent instructor for the DM, so rather than dish out some crap for not using "PADI approved" gear for these excercises, he was interested in finding good solutions.

It's a really interesting topic, thanks for bringing this up.

 

[boulderjohn]

I believe that the day will come when PADI switches from providing in-water rescue breathes while towing to just towing in the interest of getting the victim out of the water. The prevailing opinion from medical professionals seems to be that this would, on balance, be a better procedure. If I were involved in an actual rescue with an unconscious, non-breathing diver, I would just tow as fast as I could if reasonably close to shore/boat. But that's me, not the "current" PADI way.

.

Actually, it is the current PADI way, as I said above.

You do the other scenario if you cannot get the victim to help in a reasonable amount of time. If towing the person without providing any assistance along the way takes 10 minutes, you aren't doing anyone any good, no matter how fast you swim.

 

[divin'dog]

Just did my scenario 7 in my DM class yesterday. We removed gear from victim and ourselves while giving breaths... same old procedure. However, 2 EMT's are in our class and they said that coming out pretty soon all breaths will be eliminated during CPR! They said it was more important to give compressions and that survival rate is better without breaths! There is plenty of O2 in the blood.

So... if someone is not breathing in the water and I think that rescue breaths while towing will not improve the victim's status, I would get them as fast to a hard surface to do compressions as I think that is ultimately the most important thing. As far as equipment, I would strip anything off the victim and myself that would aid in a fast tow. This will depend on whether it's going to be a 5 minute tow to a boat or a long tow to shore. If by the time you strip equipment, you could have towed the victim to a boat or shore why do it? Everything depends on the situation. One thing I noticed when I took off my own gear was that I was now lower in the water and had less leverage to move and manipulate and hold onto the victim. In a real situation, I would keep my BC on and strip my weights. But that's just me. I think everyone has to think about what they think would be the fastest/best way to get the victim to help and that is something you have to decide at the scene.

 

[japan-diver]

There have been some excellent points made in this thread and some not so great ones- the advent of CPR without breaths is already here- except in cases where water is involved. Stripping gear is a case by case call on the part of the rescuer depending on length of tow, condition of victim and help available as others have pointed out. A hog rig properly sized should be easy to get off- I would in most cases cut a victim out of their rig in real life if I had to remove it but I could get out of my own quite easily. If you are having a problem getting out of your own gear easily look at how tight it is as many people wear them much tighter than needed. The next thing is practice don't wait for a DM eval to see if you can do it- try it on the next dive on the surface and practice until you can do it easily.

 

[halocline]

Actually, it is the current PADI way, as I said above.

When I took my DM in the summer of 2008, they were teaching rescue breaths while towing. This was taught by a PADI course director whom I suspect is pretty up on current PADI standards. It's entirely possible that they've since switched this. It's a pretty substantial change, so I would have thought that there would be more discussion of it. I will freely admit that I'm not very good about keeping up with changes in PADI standards.

 

[paddler3d]

I did my rescue class in a Hog rig.

I did SDI. We had to tow will doing the rescue breathing. We were encouraged to start to remove the victims gear while towing. Once to shore, or whatever, we had to ditch our gear while maintaining the rescue breathing so that we could get the student out of the water, so on so forth.

Getting out of my rig quickly wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.

Rescue breath...release my belt...rescue breath...release the arm away from the victim and plop, the whole rig slides away.

Make sure you primary is out of the way.

For your second, which is worn on a necklace of some sort, make sure you are using a necklace that you wear, but you second will pop free from. I've seen guys that literally have bungee zip tied to their second and you have to take it off from over your head.

Make sure you've got air in your wing.

It isn't as awkward as it sounds.

For giggles, I tried a buddies BC that had clips and cummerbunds. I thought theirs was a bit trickier because the materials of the BC didn't slide off (unlike webbing) and there was a lot of crap to undo, especially the stupid cummerbund.

Once the belt was open of the hog harness, you could easily slip out.