Surface rescues - Hogarthian style rig

[Rhone Man]

So this weekend I am following up on a New Year's Resolution and trying to complete my PADI DM refresher. The only bit I have left to do is the simulated diver rescue.

So I tell the instructor (who I know well) that it is a long time since I did the original course, and can she just talk me through it before we do the assessment. No problem she says, and takes me through the procedures. All sounds good until we talk about the bit about taking the unconscious diver's gear off as we swim back betwen rescue breaths. Once I have taken her gear off, one clip at a time between breaths, I am then supposed to start "undoing my own clips". Problem: I now dive with Hogarthian style BP/W, and there are no clips - just one solid piece of webbing going all the way around. And after a few dunkings of the instructor, I am pretty sure there is no way to shrug it off whilst supporting an unconscious diver's head between breaths (even in shallow water and cheating by taking the crotch strap off in advance).

After consulting the great PADI book of words, it was decided that it was OK for me to complete the exercise without removing my own gear (providing I did not try to carry her out of the water using a fireman's carry - thereby smacking her head off my tank), but it got me to thinking - this can't be the first time someone has bumped into this problem - either in the DM exam, or even in a real emergency - what do others do?

Presumably if the unconscious diver is wearing a Hogarthian rig, you would just cut it away. Does the same apply to the rescuer?

Any thoughts, views or wisdom on this subject?

 

[rstofer]

I guess it depends on your relationship with the victim. If I thought it was necessary, I would certainly be willing to cut away my rig.

If the victim's rig provides buoyancy (it is functioning) and I really thought I needed to ditch rigs, maybe I would ditch mine first. This allows the victim to have plenty of buoyancy while I do whatever.

The nice thing about the BP/W (or the back inflate) is that the victim can float on their back quite well.

Richard

 

[Mike Boswell]

Having recently completed the Rescue course with a HOG rig, I can confirm that this is indeed an issue. The way I tried to do it was:

Rescue breath, switch hands so you support vic with left hand,
Rescue breath, release waist buckle with right hand,
Rescue breath, right arm out.
Rescue breath, switch hands so you support vic with right hand,
Rescue breath, left arm out.

Then, to my chagrin, my rig sank.

It would have gone smoother with shoulder releases, but I think with a bit of practice, you can wriggle out of your rig pretty quickly.

 

[Peter Guy]

Rhone Man (or anyone else) -- in a REAL rescue situation, can someone please explain to me why you'd take the time to "disrobe" the victim and the rescuer?

IF the victim is breathing (and assuming no significant bleeding), time is on your side so just get the victim positive and tow.

IF the victim is NOT breathing, then it is highly likely the victim's heart is not beating with the result being brain O2 starvation -- NOT a good thing. IF that is the case, as I understand it, the only possible salvation is to get the victim to a place where chest (heart) compressions can be started so that O2 can get to the brain -- and in-water is NOT one of those places. Thus taking the time to carefully strip the gear may be ensuring the death of the victim.

I know the scenario calls for doing rescue breaths and stripping gear whilst continuing breaths to the victim. BUT why? What's the point of teaching something that pretty much guarantees the death of the victim?

 

[lamont]

in rescue course its simulated so usually you say 'and now i cut myself/you out of the rig' and then there's a brief pause in the action as one or the other wriggles out of the rig...

and remember that the one-piece continuous webbing is designed to stay on you, which is optimizing for the common case. it isn't designed to be lightning quick in a rescue situation (and when the diver who is unconscious is probably dead anyway -- seconds spent in trying to cut away a BP/W are not going to be life-and-death).

 

[Mike Boswell]

Rhone Man (or anyone else)...IF that is the case, as I understand it, the only possible salvation is to get the victim to a place where chest (heart) compressions can be started so that O2 can get to the brain ...I know the scenario calls for doing rescue breaths and stripping gear whilst continuing breaths to the victim. BUT why?

We were taught that if getting to safety will be faster and easier w/o the rigs, then you ditch the rigs.

 

[rongoodman]

Good point about the BP/W wanting to float the victim on her back. When I towed in my (large) instructor in his stab jacket, I remember him wanting to roll all over the place. More air in the jacket made him roll more.

 

[Thalassamania]

I was watching a rescue session a week ago, rescuer in hog rig. All worked fine until the rescuer went to "release" his last shoulder strap (by chicken winging it). At that point his rig was headed for the bottom, but it stopped, dangling from his necklaced aux.

 

[IDS_Bill]

In the trimix course you have to do a rescue of a tec diver with both of you in full tec gear and deco bottles. Not an easy task but with practice you can get out of the hog harness.

As far as real life - correct, I would leave my on if it aided in flotation, would undo their straps and use their BCD/Wing to help float them while rescue breathing. The course is designed to overtask the student and demonstrate how to prioritize actions such as rescue breaths, swimming, gear removal, etc...

 

[boulderjohn]

Rhone Man (or anyone else) -- in a REAL rescue situation, can someone please explain to me why you'd take the time to "disrobe" the victim and the rescuer?

IF the victim is breathing (and assuming no significant bleeding), time is on your side so just get the victim positive and tow.

IF the victim is NOT breathing, then it is highly likely the victim's heart is not beating with the result being brain O2 starvation -- NOT a good thing. IF that is the case, as I understand it, the only possible salvation is to get the victim to a place where chest (heart) compressions can be started so that O2 can get to the brain -- and in-water is NOT one of those places. Thus taking the time to carefully strip the gear may be ensuring the death of the victim.

I know the scenario calls for doing rescue breaths and stripping gear whilst continuing breaths to the victim. BUT why? What's the point of teaching something that pretty much guarantees the death of the victim?

in rescue course its simulated so usually you say 'and now i cut myself/you out of the rig' and then there's a brief pause in the action as one or the other wriggles out of the rig...

I am going to combine both of these quotes in my reply.

The rescue course is supposed to teach some thinking and decision making. If the diver is not breathing, the odds are (see later note) that he or she is not circulating, either. In that case, rescue breathing does no good whatsoever, and, as Peter suggests, your proper decision is to get the victim ASAP to a hard surface for CPR and (hopefully) an AED. In that case, removing gear is indeed a waste of valuable time, and the diver should be towed as quickly as possible to a hard surface.

Unfortunately, such a surface may not be immediately available. As you appraise the situation, you realize that you are too far from help to make that a realistic choice because too much time would elapse before you got there. In that case, you are going to bet against the odds. Although adults in normal situations will not be circulating if they are not breathing, in the case of drowning, they might. You therefore hope that they are circulating and provide rescue breaths. You are also hoping that this is one of those near-drowning scenarios in which the diver vomits and comes out of it soon after being given rescue breaths.

If you are in that situation, you have another decision. Is it better to strip the equipment or leave it on? Will stripping it facilitate the potential rescue? If so, you do it. If not, you don't.

The PADI Rescue 7 scenario, which is what is described here, is a last choice scenario. It trains you for the worst possible situation. It is not supposed to be your first choice for a non-breathing diver. Personally, I would have to think long and hard before removing our flotation devices while nowhere near help.

I want to stress the decision making part. That is supposed to be a stressed part of the training, at least in the PADI rescue course.

I think Lamont's point is valuable. If I were the instructor, I would tell the students that if you ever get to that dire situation, this would be the time to pull out the knife and cut things off. That is not what we would do in class, though. This might be a time to put on a conventional BCD and say that unclipping the shoulder is the way you are simulating cutting your straps.