Surely it's not supposed to be this difficult

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mongoose

Contributor
Messages
165
Reaction score
1
Location
Denton, TX
# of dives
200 - 499
Guys,

I simply cannot believe it is supposed to be this difficult. I am a fairly smart and capable guy, and I'm rock-solid in my rec rig (Zeagle Ranger, AL80). Been diving about a year & a half, with approx 100 dives. We were diving manifolded AL80's, with BP/W's. I had a 40lb(I think) oxycheq wing. It was shop gear, if that makes any difference.

I was finishing out an Intro to Tech course this weekend. All through the course, I had absolutely insurmountable difficulty controlling the rig. It literally was like juggling three monkeys and a live octopus while playing basketball on a tightrope, all the while deriving an equation for the Newtonian event-horizon radius of a black hole of twelve solar masses.

I was completely, utterly, absolutely, incontrovertably OUT OF CONTROL along and around every axis. I could not stay level, couldn't stay pointed in one direction, bounced off the bottom, into walls. The slightest, barely perceptible movement would cause a violent, careening reaction, that, ultimately, no matter how hard I would combat and struggle against the rig, no matter how hard I would flail with my hands and arms, would result in me face up, toward the surface.

It was like watching a bottle rocket ping around the walls of a freight car. It was so bad I couldn't even follow the dive briefing on the surface, just dreading the train wreck that I knew was waiting for me downstairs. I just wanted it over with.

Finally we were getting ready to do line drills. The viz absolutely sucks. 3, 4 feet max. We get downstairs, and, right on schedule, the *&^# starts to hit the fan with my control, just like on every dive, and finally I bang my fist on the platform and I thumb it. I am enraged to the point of being a safety liability and I know it. I'm holding everyone back and I know it. To hell with this. I've had it. Nothing is worth this level of frustration. The DM signals relax, relax. No. No relax. No stay still. Me OK, me fine, but me surface. You, me surface now. The very competent and patient instructor takes me to the surface, and waits until I exit the water in exhausted humiliation, then heads back downstairs to the competent people.

I know it's new. I know I'm carrying a lot of weight, and have to use a humongous air bubble in the wing to keep it neutral, and that bubble expands and contracts. But this is wrong. It cannot be this way. It just feels wrong. I should not have to fight the gear I'm diving. Here's the crazy thing...at times in the pool and the lake, it seemed like I had it down, for a few seconds.. then BAM, I'm tumbling and cartwheeling again.

***? I guess what I need to do is build my own doubles rig, and just dive it over and over and over, forever if necessary, until I've mastered it.

Thanks in advance for any comments...

--'Goose
 
Nobody can manage a huge air bubble. It creates tremendous dynamic instability.

You need to be diving equipment that doesn't require it.

You can switch from a Steel BP to Aluminum, get tanks with better buoyancy characterisics, whatever it takes.

Terry



mongoose:
I know it's new. I know I'm carrying a lot of weight, and have to use a humongous air bubble in the wing to keep it neutral, and that bubble expands and contracts. But this is wrong. It cannot be this way. It just feels wrong. I should not have to fight the gear I'm diving. Here's the crazy thing...at times in the pool and the lake, it seemed like I had it down, for a few seconds.. then BAM, I'm tumbling and cartwheeling again.

***? I guess what I need to do is build my own doubles rig, and just dive it over and over and over, forever if necessary, until I've mastered it.

Thanks in advance for any comments...

--'Goose
 
It's nice to your frankness about this with a little humor. (I think that's awesome.)

Don't be too tough on yourself. Practice, Practice, Practice. you'll get it. I think you know that already.... you're thinking straight underwater and know when it's time to get out.. just get back into it - I don't know, I hear many people start in the pool with the doubles on - maybe you can too? Take care man and let us know how it goes....
 
LOL, your doubles experience sounds like my singles experience right now! I can't WAIT to do headstands in doubles next year!

Seriously though, you shouldn't be THAT heavy in doubles. The rig itself shouldn't be more than about 10 pounds negative if you're in AL80s. And that should just about take all the weight off your belt. Maybe a couple of pounds to keep from being a rocket as you get low on gas.

I'll caveat this by saying I have *NEVER* even worn doubles, much less used them underwater, but just looking at the math, adding up 3 pounds for the harness/wing/al backplate, and about 3.5 pounds negative each, for the tanks, then the bands and manifold with regs, I'd see that as about 10 pounds. If you've got a 40 pound bladder, it shouldn't have a whole lot of gas in it.
 
mongoose:
Guys,

I simply cannot believe it is supposed to be this difficult. I am a fairly smart and capable guy, and I'm rock-solid in my rec rig (Zeagle Ranger, AL80). Been diving about a year & a half, with approx 100 dives. We were diving manifolded AL80's, with BP/W's. I had a 40lb(I think) oxycheq wing. It was shop gear, if that makes any difference.

I was finishing out an Intro to Tech course this weekend. All through the course, I had absolutely insurmountable difficulty controlling the rig. It literally was like juggling three monkeys and a live octopus while playing basketball on a tightrope, all the while deriving an equation for the Newtonian event-horizon radius of a black hole of twelve solar masses.

I was completely, utterly, absolutely, incontrovertably OUT OF CONTROL along and around every axis. I could not stay level, couldn't stay pointed in one direction, bounced off the bottom, into walls. The slightest, barely perceptible movement would cause a violent, careening reaction, that, ultimately, no matter how hard I would combat and struggle against the rig, no matter how hard I would flail with my hands and arms, would result in me face up, toward the surface.

It was like watching a bottle rocket ping around the walls of a freight car. It was so bad I couldn't even follow the dive briefing on the surface, just dreading the train wreck that I knew was waiting for me downstairs. I just wanted it over with.

Finally we were getting ready to do line drills. The viz absolutely sucks. 3, 4 feet max. We get downstairs, and, right on schedule, the *&^# starts to hit the fan with my control, just like on every dive, and finally I bang my fist on the platform and I thumb it. I am enraged to the point of being a safety liability and I know it. I'm holding everyone back and I know it. To hell with this. I've had it. Nothing is worth this level of frustration. The DM signals relax, relax. No. No relax. No stay still. Me OK, me fine, but me surface. You, me surface now. The very competent and patient instructor takes me to the surface, and waits until I exit the water in exhausted humiliation, then heads back downstairs to the competent people.

I know it's new. I know I'm carrying a lot of weight, and have to use a humongous air bubble in the wing to keep it neutral, and that bubble expands and contracts. But this is wrong. It cannot be this way. It just feels wrong. I should not have to fight the gear I'm diving. Here's the crazy thing...at times in the pool and the lake, it seemed like I had it down, for a few seconds.. then BAM, I'm tumbling and cartwheeling again.

***? I guess what I need to do is build my own doubles rig, and just dive it over and over and over, forever if necessary, until I've mastered it.

Thanks in advance for any comments...

--'Goose
post your gear and weight configurations and I'll help out this afternoon. what size wing?steal BP? how much lead and were you have it?Drysuit? stuff like that. Because your right! It's not supposed to be that hard .
 
the water humbles once again!! I was like that on my first drysuit dive. The thing with tech equipment is to get your rig as balanced and light as possible, to get that "massive air bubble" as small as possible. Were you wearing a belt? If so, try changing to a V-weight, 7lbs is ideal for double AL80's. This will take the load off your hips and put it on your back and help your balance. I'm guessing you were wearing a wetsuit, but i could be wrong. If you were diving dry, try adding just enough air to relieve the squeeze, excess air in the suit also leads in instability.

From what you wrote, it sounds like you've only got a few dives on doubles. Practice alot, and try changing things around, play with the positioning of the plate and wing, play around with weigh distribution until you find a nice balance. It takes time, and I know from experience that frustration doesn't help!!!

good luck!
 
I remember my first dive on doubles... much the same story with me swimming along in all kinds of atitudes until gear refinement and shear practice, practice, practice eventually sorted the problem out.

Having a huge bubble in your wing obviously means you are overweighted which won't help either.
 
nova:
post your gear and weight configurations and I'll help out this afternoon. what size wing?steal BP? how much lead and were you have it?Drysuit? stuff like that. Because your right! It's not supposed to be that hard .
Yep. Mr mongoose needs to provide more info.
 
mongoose:
Guys,

I know it's new. I know I'm carrying a lot of weight, and have to use a humongous air bubble in the wing to keep it neutral,

I was already seeing this as a strong possibility before you said it out loud. You know your problem. The solution is evident.

This is going to be a question of persistence. Do 1/2-dozen dives in your new rig to get used to it and do a good buoyancy check on every one of them.

You can't do skills if you don't have control of your rig. You need to take time to do things in teh right order.

R..
 
Sorry guys, you're right.. I do need to provide more info... I was in freshwater, had on a 2mm shorty, SS backplate, dual manifolded AL80's with SS bands. I had on blade fins, not splits(hated giving those up). I was wearing no weight. I apologize but I cannot remember the size of the wing. I want to say that it was 40 lb, and I do know it was an OxyCheq. It was actually a bit better that the first one I dove, which was a lot bigger Abyss brand.

I went last night and bought a Zeagle SS backplate from the LDS, and a Dive Rite webbing kit. Only problem was that the kit didn't come with the toothed webbing keepers, only the smooth ones, so I need to change that. Also need to buy some webbing for the crotch strap, and some thin bungee for the left shoulder. Next payday... a wing! Next payday... jet fins.

I am hell-bent on getting this. I am taking your advice to heart. I am just going to build the thing and force myself (at gunpoint if necessary) to dive it over and over until I can calmly do helicopter turns inside a submerged honda civic with no mask, while people shoot at me with spearguns.
 
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