Supporting your LDS exclusively?

[robbcayman]

My LDS wants more than double the Internet prices for gear. Hence, I buy all my gear online. He doesn't like it, but understands I'm out for the best price. I'm not in the business of funding a bad business model at my expense. I do, however, buy training from him and do group dive trips to tropical places with the shop. I hope my LDS survives, but I'm not paying more for my gear from him.

Serioulsy, leave this shop, because this guy will resent you for your online purchases. It's funny, dive shops no longer have customers by the cajones. We can get better deals than they can.

 

[jar546]

I am very opinionated on this somewhat touchy subject.

1) Buy local and support your local economy. Providing the LDS is not an arrogant idiot.
2) Make sure you let them know you are checking prices and expect them to be competitive.
3) Understand that there is value in the service you receive from the LDS. I would not argue over a $20 difference with a $500 piece of equipment.
4) There is convenience in being able to stop in the dive shop the night before you go diving and there is convenience in ordering stuff online. There is a balancing act. Expect more from the local dive shop.
5) Don't expect sympathy from your LDS if you make a large purchase elsewhere then expect them to fix it a a reduced price if you did not buy it there.
6) There is value in being able to go to a LDS and physically see, handle and in some cases try out the equipment rather than buying blindly online.

I try to purchase everything at the LDS but I have not always done that. I have strayed under the following conditions:

1) They were out of stock, I needed it sooner than they can get it in stock. Their fault for poor inventory. No guilt there.

2) I found a used piece of equipment for sale at a great price.

3) They don't carry the brand that I wanted.

4) It is an item that they don't normally carry to begin with.

Always give the LDS a shot first and develop a relationship with them. It will benefit you in the long run.

 

[TSandM]

Every time we have one of these discussions, I muse again on how unique the dive business seems to be. It is not the only specialty sport in which I participate, but my other sport has NONE of the shop politics and pettiness of diving. (And I find that extremely funny, really, because the shops in my other sport are all run by women, who in general tend to be much cattier and nastier behind one another's backs than men, who run dive shops, usually are.) Shop A doesn't care if you bought your saddle at shop B, so long as you buy your bridle at shop A -- or something there, anyway.

I left my original LDS, even while I still very much liked them, because a nearby shop had an all-you-can-eat Nitrox plan (there were actually two shops in town doing that). I went to the owner and asked him if he would start a similar plan, and I got a ten minute harangue about how such plans put shops out of business and I'd see that I'd pay my money and the shop would be gone in six months.

That was four years ago. Said shop is not only not gone, but an awful lot of people use it as their LDS, with all the incidental purchases and so on that go with that, because of that "stupid" plan.

I understand that it's a difficult business and profits are small. But it just floors me that shop owners think that ill-humor and ill-treatment of customers will fix the problem.

I am a believer in method 1. Many are not. I run my boat that way. When you come on board for a sport diving trip, there is nothing more to buy. I include your nitrox, tank rental, weights, beer, wine, food, soda, and I even pay my crew a living wage so you aren't forced to. (They still like their tips, but don't rely on them).

Cap'n Frank, I want to go out on your boat! I hate being nickeled and dimed, and I would love your policies.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

I would view a draconian policy such as the exclusive one described by the OP not as a cause of business failure, but rather as a sign that they are failing and desperate. LDS owner are often not great business people and when the get desperate they do stupid things like this. Take is as a sign to invest your dollars someplace else rather than jump onto a sinking ship.

 

[Wookie]

Every time we have one of these discussions, I muse again on how unique the dive business seems to be. It is not the only specialty sport in which I participate, but my other sport has NONE of the shop politics and pettiness of diving. (And I find that extremely funny, really, because the shops in my other sport are all run by women, who in general tend to be much cattier and nastier behind one another's backs than men, who run dive shops, usually are.) Shop A doesn't care if you bought your saddle at shop B, so long as you buy your bridle at shop A -- or something there, anyway.

I left my original LDS, even while I still very much liked them, because a nearby shop had an all-you-can-eat Nitrox plan (there were actually two shops in town doing that). I went to the owner and asked him if he would start a similar plan, and I got a ten minute harangue about how such plans put shops out of business and I'd see that I'd pay my money and the shop would be gone in six months.

That was four years ago. Said shop is not only not gone, but an awful lot of people use it as their LDS, with all the incidental purchases and so on that go with that, because of that "stupid" plan.

I understand that it's a difficult business and profits are small. But it just floors me that shop owners think that ill-humor and ill-treatment of customers will fix the problem.

One difference is that the tack shop doesn't offer instruction. Instruction is the problem with diving today, as far as I'm concerned (today is my certification agency rant day. I'll try to keep it short). Instructors must necessarily have a fair amount of ego. That isn't necessarily bad, but it often is. The ego is required to have the confidence that the instructor can take control and make everything right when it's all going wrong. It isn't always the truth, but it's always necessary to be a successful instructor. With that ego can come pride and aloofness. That's where dive shops run into trouble. As in "why did you buy that online/at another shop/from Uncle Harry. Mines just as good, in fact, it's better." No "here's why", that's called salesmanship, and that isn't taught in ego school. Just "mine's better". The dive shop owner begins to believe that the whatever he sells is really better, then he gets insulted when you buy your whatever it is online, as in "You're not taking my advice".

If we had scuba retailers selling gear, and instructors hanging out at the quarry, and fill stations wherever tanks needed to be filled, there would be a lot less strife in the scuba market.

 

[scubafanatic]

I would love to find out who the LDS is and what they had to say. To be perfectly honest, I just find it hard to believe that the owner of a dive shop would actually tell any customer that if they didn't buy just from them they would be banned from the shop and they would double the costs of classes. Just doesn't add up.

I agree with Wookie here, apparently you don't get out very much....

I've literally have been told the following things by certain of my LDSs:

1) I don't buy/spend enough $ at their shop
2) To stay the h*ll away from the shop's other divers after I accidentally mentioned Scubatoys to a diver and the LDS owner overheard me
3) been removed from the mailing/e-mail lists of said dive shop

...so, while the words 'you're banned from my shop' weren't spoken, it was clearly a defacto ban, and one would have to be pretty clueless to interpret those actions otherwise!

 

[redacted]

If we had scuba retailers selling gear, and instructors hanging out at the quarry, and fill stations wherever tanks needed to be filled, there would be a lot less strife in the scuba market.

I'd like to see some separation between instruction and certification. I believe it would be better if a diver could go to a certification agency and be tested much like you go get your driver's license. If a person needs a driving or diving instructor to succeed, then he can hire one.

 

[pedo]

Every time we have one of these discussions, I muse again on how unique the dive business seems to be. It is not the only specialty sport in which I participate, but my other sport has NONE of the shop politics and pettiness of diving. (And I find that extremely funny, really, because the shops in my other sport are all run by women, who in general tend to be much cattier and nastier behind one another's backs than men, who run dive shops, usually are.) Shop A doesn't care if you bought your saddle at shop B, so long as you buy your bridle at shop A -- or something there, anyway.

I left my original LDS, even while I still very much liked them, because a nearby shop had an all-you-can-eat Nitrox plan (there were actually two shops in town doing that). I went to the owner and asked him if he would start a similar plan, and I got a ten minute harangue about how such plans put shops out of business and I'd see that I'd pay my money and the shop would be gone in six months.

That was four years ago. Said shop is not only not gone, but an awful lot of people use it as their LDS, with all the incidental purchases and so on that go with that, because of that "stupid" plan.

I understand that it's a difficult business and profits are small. But it just floors me that shop owners think that ill-humor and ill-treatment of customers will fix the problem.



Cap'n Frank, I want to go out on your boat! I hate being nickeled and dimed, and I would love your policies.

But I know tack shops that have different prices depending on where you ride or stable your horse.

Also, god help you if you ride with or get instruction from someone else!

 

[Johnmpcny]

My dive shop does not do this, now what he does and I agree with is he will not wait to after closing for you if you do not buy from him. He will not tell you do not worry about bringing back that 2nd rental tank to Tuesday if your busy Monday like mine does. He will let you try a different weight combo just grab some and hop in the pool or take it for the weekend... lots of things like that.

I do buy some special stuff he does not have online. Like a different wet suit at 50% close out that I like the fit and feel of. Not a problem as I spent over $5000 in past 12 months with him. I asked him once if I like something I see on a trip and want to buy it should I? Sure he said if your going to use it on the trip why wait, he no problem with that. I got a new skin on my trip, it was warmer and did not need a full one so I got a top.

Would I buy 100% on line, no but I know my LDS does not carry every product in the world and to order a one off is not worth it for him many times on small items.

I look at things like knives, watches and accessories and buy what I like if he has it, if not I get it on line. That new Dive computer everyone is wanting is not one of his lines. I can tell you I would buy that where I could if he cannot get it.

When I buy on line I never expect my LDS to service me, in fact if they do I expect to pay more. Look you have the right to buy any place you want. No place does it say your LDS has to service you. Most have only so much time and it not unlimited to service thier customers, if you are not one and only buy online you will never a customer worth servicing at any rate.

I do 100% agree with a LDS telling you take a hike when you come in shop ask questions and then go buy it on line for less. Do that regular and your not a good customer and never will be.

That said my first LDS is long gone when I wanted to find a new this LDS stood out and was helpfull. They got my money and soon more as my Son will get his card this spring. They will get the gear on that deal.

 

[DiverLS]

One of the LDS's in Reno Nevada is Sierra Dive shop. They have been open since 1969. The way they hook you into buying more there is the more you buy, the more of a discount you get. It works for me. The kids in the store (I call them kids because they are much younger than my kids) give me any break they can. There are no prices posted beause of this.

I used to buy on the internet and from the least expensive shop I could. Not anymore.

So there are good shops out there. Sometimes you just need to know the secrets.