Support my LDS? Really?

[fire_diver]

so....I'm not sure when my original thread got derailed somewhere 2 or 3 pages back, but this thread is pretty much useless now other than a couple scattered comments in the last 30~ish.

but I'm just the dumb newb & the OP, so what do I know?

Forum threads generally follow a pattern. The first replies answer the original question, but after a couple pages there isn't much more to add. When this happens, people tend to start adding comments slightly off, and replies to those get further off. Pretty soon the thread has taken on a life of it's own and the conversion barely resembles the orignal. As long as nobody invokes Godwin's law, it eventually fades off into a slow death.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

 

[So-Tx-Rich]

Did your clients also pay $695 for that same trip? If so, it was a screaming deal. But if what you're quoting was what you paid ... and they paid a higher price ... then that's exactly the deception awap is talking about.

When quoting such things, it helps to compare apples to apples.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Yes, that was the advertised price paid by everyone. We don't get discounts on trips we don't work on.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I read the first post but skipped the flame war so please forgive me if I rehash. I literally scrolled up to see if the OP was from the same area as I am - the bad LDS must just be the norm. I have only been into this for a very short couple of years now and I truly dispair for a good shop that is good to its word. Is recreational scuba the only service / discretionary income field where the customer is expected to just accept bad, untimely, overpriced service on rotating terms? This is my fourth or fifth high hard cost hobby in the past decade and I have to say that not one gun shop, motorcycle shop, boat supply, machine shop, exotic car shop, or the like has treated me as poorly as every LDS I have done business with (and I am not nit pciking - I am talking equipment spending days, weeks, or months in for annual repair beyond promised dates, no call back with promised information on items I want to buy from the LDS, increases on prices for services already performed, broken promises with BS reasons, you name it). I am pretty much to the point of wanting to do everything on the internet, buy my own compressor/blender, and just blow all of them off! What gives?

I've been in some bicycle shops that were pretty bad.
That was pre internet though, they might be twice as bad now?

 

[GrandpaScuba]

Not everyone in business is a good business man. You aren't the only one who will figure this out. It's time for LDS owners/managers to learn the new business paradigm or prepare to go extinct.

What is this new business paradigm? I've spent hours thinking about the future of the dive industry - and haven't been able to come up with a new business model that works. So, what's your idea?

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

What is this new business paradigm? I've spent hours thinking about the future of the dive industry - and haven't been able to come up with a new business model that works. So, what's your idea?

Well for one charging full retail on everythng with an attitude of 'If you don't like it there's the door' and then hoping the customers that walk in are oblivious to the internet and think that those prices and that treatment is standard.
That's a pretty narrow minded business strategy I would say, and one that is not sustainable. Operating on luck and borrowed time is not a proven strategy.
Competing with your competition and providing something they're unable to or better is the name of the game.
That includes carrying products that your brick and mortar competition on the other side of town doesn't have.
Too many times I walk into a dive shop and they all subscribe to the exact same floor plan with the same exact template.
The way things are now It simply boils down to whoever is the friendliest and has the cleanest air gets the business, I guess?
Until they dump MAP dealers and do ther homework on how the dive industry works now I'm afraid many are destined to go extinct.
Maybe some need to go extinct?

 

[phork]

Here goes the short version of an 8 month story. It all started back in November when I first got open water certified. He led me to believe that I had to get mask/fin/snorkel from him because they had to be something special (purge valve, I now know, is what he wanted to sell me). He hit me for $125 for the mask, $85 for fins, and $30 for a snorkel.

That's pretty much where I would have drawn the line and found a new shop. Any shop that tells you that you need a $125 mask or a $30 snorkel for your OW cert is only there to sell you crap you don't need. The shop I bought my regs at pretty much suckered me into spending a lot more than I originally wanted. While they are great regs (SP MK17/g250v) and I love them, $865 is MUCH more than I planned on spending even if I do get parts for life from SP and a discount on servicing from the LDS. After realizing my mistake, I went to another shop that is a good bit out of the way for me and I have been buying from them ever since. They don't pressure me into anything, they don't offer expensive substitutes to my original ideas and they are just really nice people. It might be an extra 30 minutes travel time (round trip) but the service you get from them is great and well worth it.

I'd drive the extra time to go to a better shop. For air fills, just go in, get air and get out. You don't have to talk to him. Tell him you don't speak english anymore.

 

[toliver66]

.... Any shop that tells you that you need a $125 mask or a $30 snorkel for your OW cert is only there to sell you crap you don't need.

Don't they all say that though? I was told the same thing at every dive shop I went to when I was shopping around for OW cert and quoted about that same price range. I got certified and dove my first 2 years with a $20 US divers mask and a $6 Safeways valve purge snorkel from Walmart with a pair of old rubber Aqua Lung Rocket fins I got from a pawn shop for $15. And 20 years later I'm still diving and snorkeling with that same Safeways snorkel. I bought a new mask and fins because I wanted to not because I needed to or had to. I actually wish I still had those old black rubber Aqua Lung Rocket fins. Those things were the bomb.

Any dive shop (or retailer period for that matter) that thinks they are not in competition with internet commerce and/or the other guy down the road are living in a fantasy world and domed to failure.

 

[diverrex]

Well for one charging full retail on everythng with an attitude of 'If you don't like it there's the door' and then hoping the customers that walk in are oblivious to the internet and think that those prices and that treatment is standard.
That's a pretty narrow minded business strategy I would say, and one that is not sustainable. Operating on luck and borrowed time is not a proven strategy.
Competing with your competition and providing something they're unable to or better is the name of the game.
That includes carrying products that your brick and mortar competition on the other side of town doesn't have.
Too many times I walk into a dive shop and they all subscribe to the exact same floor plan with the same exact template.
The way things are now It simply boils down to whoever is the friendliest and has the cleanest air gets the business, I guess?
Until they dump MAP dealers and do ther homework on how the dive industry works now I'm afraid many are destined to go extinct.
Maybe some need to go extinct?

I suspect that there are too many dive shops. For many owners it's a fun type of business to have, but just because it's fun for the owner doesn't mean there is a balance between supply and demand. Of course once the owner realizes there is not much money in it it isn't fun anymore.

I think lots of small shops will continue to go out of business. But good shops can continue but will need to offer something whether it's training, trips, expertise, service, socialization, etc. that an online store has trouble providing.

 

[CWSWine]

Looks like in the near future online stores will have to pay sales tax to the state they ship to, that will make a big difference. Having to charge tax and still have to pay shipping will somewhat level the playing field between brick and mortar and online stores.