Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[boulderjohn]

In the complaint, it says you can't find expelled instructors without the member number.

Which is clearly not true.

But this is a red herring, and there are several others in this case, which is typical when lawyers throw everything they can think of into a case, and since Concannon specializes in dive suits, he knows them all.

How many people do you think in the history of scuba instruction have gone to an agency to see if the instructor has been expelled? I never did, and I have taken a slew of classes. I would bet it rounds off to zero.

But getting back to the weight of the student, didn't DAN state in their 2016 annual report that they'd like to see improved buoyancy control and proper weighting in the list of top ten changes they'd like to see?

It truly boggles my mind how many instructors overweight students by a HUGE degree. In the famous Utah Boy Scout class, the overweighting was also outrageous and was (more even than the instructor incompetence and standard breaking) probably the primary cause for the death.

I find it is especially true with drysuits. People seem to think you need tons of weight to use them, which is simply not true. I saw a photo of someone I knew from ScubaBoard diving shortly after being drysuit certified, and her suit was puffed up like the Michelin Man. Her weighting must have been extreme.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

How many people do you think in the history of scuba instruction have gone to an agency to see if the instructor has been expelled? I never did, and I have taken a slew of classes. I would bet it rounds off to zero.

I tell all of my friends who ask me about getting certified to verify the current status of their instructor with the applicable agency. I have a friend getting certified right now and he checked. The instructor gladly shared his instructor number so that he could look it up. My friend sent me the data to verify as well.

If your instructor won't give you the information necessary to allow you to look them up you have your answer right there.

 

[Wookie]

How many people do you think in the history of scuba instruction have gone to an agency to see if the instructor has been expelled? I never did, and I have taken a slew of classes. I would bet it rounds off to zero.

Of course, the very first thing I did when I started getting Underwater Journal was to see if any of my classmates or my wife's classmates (They were more ill-prepared than mine) had been expelled. There are some truly horrendous instructors out there.

But you are right. A student would never do so, although they might check Yelp or TripAdvisor prior to taking a class.

 

[Marie13]

I find it is especially true with drysuits. People seem to think you need tons of weight to use them, which is simply not true. I saw a photo of someone I knew from ScubaBoard diving shortly after being drysuit certified, and her suit was puffed up like the Michelin Man. Her weighting must have been extreme.

The trick is getting ALL the air out. Some seem to need reminders on that.

 

[Jcp2]

In that case anything is liable! Tooth pick can cause serious damage if I poke it on someone eyes.
I have not seen any warning on kitchen utensil eg. knife. This device is only to be used in the kitchen. Please do not use it to attack other persons.
"Liability"when lawyer smells money.

For most cases of liability, the reasonable person standard is applied, except for the subcategory of strict liability applied to manufacturers of complex goods where it would not be expected that a reasonable person would have sufficient knowledge to make an independent judgement of risk. Vaccines happen to be in this category.

 

[boulderjohn]

The trick is getting ALL the air out. Some seem to need reminders on that.

All the air? That would be what happened in this case.

You want enough air in there to eliminate the squeeze.

 

[Marie13]

All the air? That would be what happened in this case.

You want enough air in there to eliminate the squeeze.

Before you get in the water. I add a wee bit when descending. I’m of the just enough to keep the squeeze off mindset, use my wing for buoyancy.

 

[Seaweed Doc]

All the air out above water.


Ok, it's nearly impossible to get ALL the air out. But if nits are being picked, in this case there was still air present. Just highly compressed air....

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

All the air? That would be what happened in this case.

You want enough air in there to eliminate the squeeze.

Yes as much of the air as possible.

Normally people have inflator hoses attached , are not ridiculously overweighted,, etc.

This case, as described in the lawsuit (assuming everything is mostly accurate and must be close with video evidence), is just a completely different scenario than the normal.

we are all shocked beyond disbelief. Normal doesn’t apply to this case at all.

My fear is there will be a repercussion to where agencies ban any camera all together from classes or instructors will.

I don’t allow camera on my students because I want them to focus. I do use cameras when allowed. For open water, I like to have an assistant recording who only records video as video feedback is an incredibly useful teaching tool. If a student has a certified friend to record, great. However that friend cannot be intrusive to the lessons being taught.

I believe there should be video as much as possible. I’ve heard some bad instructors say “the video can be used against you in court.”

No, the video can be used FOR me in court. I only fear a medical issue to occur during my courses, nothing else. Any video will exonerate me as it will show me doing my best effort to rescue a student having a medical condition. Hopefully it won’t be me who has the medical emergency, as an acquaintance of mine had his AOW instructor have a heart attack and die during training.

just what the F are you doing that you fear video being used against you? This is scuba diving not rocket science. There are very basic safety protocols involved. Unfortunately, not everyone gets that in IDC. And an IE that samples over the course of a couple days isn’t sufficient.

While this is an extreme case, I do think it is an indicator of reform needed in the scuba industry. Yes I’m extremely cynical. I admit that. I just have seen too much risk taking for the sake of time and money (not having the right equipment).

 

[reefugee]

How in the world did she have 24 pounds of weight and then they find an additional 20 pounds for a total of 44 pounds of weight?

Wouldn’t she have known she was over weighted?

Wow just wow.

Glenn

She had 5 dives. That still a brand new diver with no drysuit experience! She trusted her instructor. I don't put any blame on LINNEA MILLS.