Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[PirateFoxy]

You don't have to monitor/police ALL the shops...just the one's you've expelled.

Thinking about it, you might be able to do a lot of monitoring just with some well-designed search engine alerts and social media skimming. (Again, obviously, this does not take the place of going in person for all things, but could help with prioritizing who gets visited first, that sort of thing.)

People share a lot more than they realize online these days, and social media presence is often fairly important for businesses, especially ones trying to build a sense of community like many dive shops seem to. Someone's going to say something or share a photo that has a sign in it, etc. Seems like this could be used as part of QA generally as well - pick a shop, see what people online are saying about it. If there's a lot of complaints or students reporting the same sort of issues, then you know someone should go see what's going on.

 

[tursiops]

Thinking about it, you might be able to do a lot of monitoring just with some well-designed search engine alerts and social media skimming. (Again, obviously, this does not take the place of going in person for all things, but could help with prioritizing who gets visited first, that sort of thing.)

People share a lot more than they realize online these days, and social media presence is often fairly important for businesses, especially ones trying to build a sense of community like many dive shops seem to. Someone's going to say something or share a photo that has a sign in it, etc. Seems like this could be used as part of QA generally as well - pick a shop, see what people online are saying about it. If there's a lot of complaints or students reporting the same sort of issues, then you know someone should go see what's going on.

The issue isn't whether they are still doing stupid stuff, but whether they are still advertising as an agency-affiliated shop. if the shop has been expelled by (say) PADI, but continues to call themselves a PADI shop, PADI ought to come down on them. Web-searching ought to find that out pretty quickly...

 

[PirateFoxy]

The issue isn't whether they are still doing stupid stuff, but whether they are still advertising as an agency-affiliated shop. if the shop has been expelled by (say) PADI, but continues to call themselves a PADI shop, PADI ought to come down on them. Web-searching ought to find that out pretty quickly...

Oh, yes, I was just thinking you could potentially also inform some kind of QA program using similar information sources as part of your data set, in addition to just seeing who is advertising who shouldn't be. That reduces the workload of actually doing QA since you wouldn't be exclusively dependent on a 'secret shopper' type arrangement to get information on what shops are up to. (Doing a QA program entirely dependent on putting boots on the ground for info seems impractical. Doing one where online data is used to help identify where to send a much smaller set of 'secret shoppers' seems more plausible, should an agency want to do such a thing.)

 

[1Cave Ghost]

@ Wookie, I had great times on your boat. I wish you would start up again.
I would be the first to book a trip.

 

[Subfiend]

Asking a question to gauge interest:

Would there be interest among instructors and training agencies to see the first video of this diving excursion and possibly use it as a learning tool?

This video shows the state of disorganization and the “instruction” received by one student, as well as rocks being placed in the student’s dry suit thigh pockets to make her negatively buoyant. The video ends with the student leaving the water.

The second video will never be released.

 

[formernuke]

Maybe, without seeing it it's hard to Guage it's value.

 

[VikingDives]

Asking a question to gauge interest:

Would there be interest among instructors and training agencies to see the first video of this diving excursion and possibly use it as a learning tool?

This video shows the state of disorganization and the “instruction” received by one student, as well as rocks being placed in the student’s dry suit thigh pockets to make her negatively buoyant. The video ends with the student leaving the water.

The second video will never be released.

I'd be interested in seeing this.

 

[RainPilot]

Asking a question to gauge interest:

Would there be interest among instructors and training agencies to see the first video of this diving excursion and possibly use it as a learning tool?

This video shows the state of disorganization and the “instruction” received by one student, as well as rocks being placed in the student’s dry suit thigh pockets to make her negatively buoyant. The video ends with the student leaving the water.

The second video will never be released.

I would appreciate the ability to use it as an IDC training tool

 

[sea_ledford]

Asking a question to gauge interest:

Would there be interest among instructors and training agencies to see the first video of this diving excursion and possibly use it as a learning tool?

This video shows the state of disorganization and the “instruction” received by one student, as well as rocks being placed in the student’s dry suit thigh pockets to make her negatively buoyant. The video ends with the student leaving the water.

The second video will never be released.

I'd be interested. I talk about disorganization on the students part as a red flag for my DM students, it would be nice to have an example from a whole class perspective.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Asking a question to gauge interest:

Would there be interest among instructors and training agencies to see the first video of this diving excursion and possibly use it as a learning tool?

This video shows the state of disorganization and the “instruction” received by one student, as well as rocks being placed in the student’s dry suit thigh pockets to make her negatively buoyant. The video ends with the student leaving the water.

The second video will never be released.

David,

Is it really necessary though? I'm not sure if I'd learn anything from it. The instructor (my opinion) was rushing to conduct these courses. These were done late in the day. There was no chance of notifying EMS as the lodge had closed in late September and there is no cell service (if any of this is incorrect, please let me know).

There was no pool orientation prior. The correct hose was not available. There was no weight check. There was no distribution of weight so that the deceased was effortlessly horizontal (and obviously not overweighted). Besides RAID, show me an agency that discusses weight distribution.

The physics we have to deal with as divers is pretty darn simple, but if people don't understand the basics of center of mass vs center of volume/displacement, Boyle's Law, Archimedes Principle, what have we got?

I don't think PADI, or any agency, is going to make significant changes to their IDCs.

I do see @RainPilot request for IDCs of a cold shower to IDC participants of "here's a royal F-up that killed a young woman" to sober them up.

But for me personally, I'll get nothing from it.

Many people will disagree with me, but I think mixing different courses is a bad idea and not in the best interest of students in terms of learning. It's just a technique for mills.