Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

[boulderjohn]

If Snow knew that she was being video’d, would she have acted differently? If you had seen the video of Linnea dying, dying, dead, you might make a stellar video because you’d do everything right.

If Snow were told to submit a video showing her demonstrating he instructional skill, I am pretty sure she would have chosen a beautiful setting with benign conditions and students well prepared for the class.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks. Do we know if the instructor and dive shop complied with that here?

There are no facts known in the case as yet.

I'm pretty sure I read that they had not submitted their previous problems and PADI was unaware of them.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks. Do we know if the instructor and dive shop complied with that here?

There are no facts known in the case as yet.

More information:

Here is the DiverNet summary of the case so far.

Here is a paragraph from that report. It explains that the Mills family states in their suit why they were unable to form a judgment about the dive center:

The National Park Service was said to have conducted an investigation because Gull Dive had not been authorised to operate in the park, according to the Missoula Current, which ran the original report on the suit. An earlier legal action into another fatality in 2019 was ongoing against Gull Dive, but because the dive-school had failed to report the incident to PADI, Mills and her family would have been unaware of this.​

The family is contending that because Gull Dive did not report the previous fatality to PADI, they were unaware of that incident. That obviously means PADI was also unaware of it.

 

[cerich]

subsequent classes he emphasized to the students to remember that a line was used during the CESA.

shame, because the students then are more likely to come away with the impression/"memory" that a CESA needs to be done on a line and not do IRL emergency. Like so many divers don't release weights because only simulate in class, or my favorite, the rescue diver certified diver having a real emergency on the surface who shouted "pizza" over and over again while she drowned, because in rescue class she was taught to yell pizza instead of help and IRL she defaulted to what she did in training.

But, not my problem

 

[boulderjohn]

shame, because the students then are more likely to come away with the impression/"memory" that a CESA needs to be done on a line and not do IRL emergency.

The student is not on the line--the instructor is. The instructor is to hold both the student and the line so that the student can be stopped in case of a runaway ascent. This was a recommendation of the UHMS workshop on CESAs decades ago, when it was discovered that teaching the CESA without those safeguards was the primary cause of fatal accidents during training.

 

[cerich]

That obviously means PADI was also unaware of it.

Not true, PADI was aware of the previous fatality, the regional training consultant even informed HQ about

Suit filed in case of "Girl dead, boy injured at Glacier National Park

I would actually rather the agency take more control over their instructors, actually providing oversight of instructors, actually auditing and observing them performing instruction in the wild. You mean the way the principals and assistant principals in a school building oversee the teachers...

scubaboard.com

 

[cerich]

The student is not on the line--the instructor is. The instructor is to hold both the student and the line so that the student can be stopped in case of a runaway ascent. This was a recommendation of the UHMS workshop on CESAs decades ago, when it was discovered that teaching the CESA without those safeguards was the primary cause of fatal accidents during training.

Gee John, thanks for letting me know how to conduct a CESA, and you missed my point. Most likely deliberately (as you do) along with some "explaining" to make it appear I don't understand how to do the skill in an pathetic effort to discredit me.

Best,

Chris Richardson
SDI/TDI/ERDI #17 Instructor Trainer /Evaluator former member training advisory
NAUI 17055 Tech/rec course director and former board member, training committee member
SNSI Instructor Trainer Evaluator and Director
Former RSTC Board member
PADI MSDT 157937
ACUC 1049ea Advanced Instr
CMAS 3 star Inst

 

[boulderjohn]

Sure. And Gull Dive was operating under the watchful eye of PADI?

View attachment 732651
So someone who “could” have provided recognized oversight apparently didn’t. So should they have? In your opinion, with all that we know, we know that the training agency does not consider either the dive shop or the instructor to be an agent of the agency, we know that the training agency collects fees from both the dive shop as well as the instructor for membership at various levels, but we don’t know if a retail customer assumes that that dive shop operates in accordance with terms of their agreement with the training agency, but we now know that the training agency, even if they discover a violation of that agreement, won’t do anything about it, because neither the instructor nor the dive shop is an agent of the agency.

Do I have that right? Am I making sense, or am I out in outer space somewhere?

As I read that, the date of the report is November 2, 2020. As I read the story of the accident, it happened the day before that. Also notice that the report did not come from Gull Dive Center but rather from someone else. SO Gull Dive CEnter did not report it to PADI.

 

[cerich]

As I read that, the date of the report is November 2, 2020. As I read the story of the accident, it happened the day before that. Also notice that the report did not come from Gull Dive Center but rather from someone else. SO Gull Dive CEnter did not report it to PADI.

I did not say that Gull reported it to PADI, I am saying that PADI was aware. There is a very slight chance that the regional training consultant didn't know about prior to the second death. I will bet however he did, based on verbiage of that email and also my experience as a training agency and equip manuf regional manager and the endless stream of information we heard from all our accounts and instrs gleefully letting us know what the other shops were doing.

But you wouldn't understand that from your very limited dive industry experience base

 

[Esprise Me]

So, as a follow-up question, if an instructor/dive shop fails to report an incident to PADI, and PADI finds out, how do they treat the failure to report?