Suit filed for Carbon Monoxide fatality - Washington state

[dumpsterDiver]

No kidding? On all charter boats on Puget Sound?

I know here in California, there is no DM in the water, but there is usually one on deck in a wet suit.

I honestly can't see that it would be "standard procedure" to not be ready for a rescue. And then after one was needed, to be able to back off to, well... It is standard procedure... Really?

I am all for being independent. But when you are running a charter, you should be able to perform a rescue and not back off to "It's standard procedure for us to not give a damn"

I tend to agree with this. If there is someone on the rear deck who is a DM, is it really "impossible" for them to dive in the water with a rope in hand (or throwable floatation device), swim, 50 feet and grab a hold of the victim, while the captain hauls them both back to the stern?

I'm not saying that was anything close to the actual accident, but if the SOP is to do nothing but yell encouraging words (because the DM has not equipped themselves to provide any lifeguard duties on the surface), I could see a family thinking that they might have a case.

I've worked as a DM on a few charter boats for many hundreds of trips and ALL of my "rescues" (except 2 I think) were panicked diver at the surface behind the boat scenarios. I would just dive in and haul their screaming butts back to the platform.

 

[NAM001]

This is a double edged sword. It sounds like this is a taxi state. Cal is the same I hear as is other states. Could it be that you do nothing or everything with no in the middle area when it comes to services. In other words the taxi is limited to transportation. If some DM services are provided then all DM servicesmust be provided. It would explain the issue of no one on deck being suited up fo a potential rescue. Would suiting up by crew IMPLY they are responsible for you. I know this is always a touchy area. It has always been my position that as long as there is f formal business arrangement there is liability on the business for our person and belongings. US BARTERING LAWS. I have no clue how SSI is in this unless it is a SSI shop or perhaps an SSI DM.

 

[SeahorseDeb]

I have dove with Bandito since 2009, logging about 20 boat dives with them --I travel 300 miles for the privledge. It's my responsibility to ensure my tanks are full, analyzed, and gear serviced before I go diving anywhere--boat or shore. It's not Banditos responsibility. The diver went in the water alone--yup-- we go over the rail one at a time, surface, give the okay sign, and wait for our buddy or give the okay sign and descend following Banditos profile instructions for the site. Bandito informs divers in advance of the dive that they don't have a suited up diver...and now tell me the diver didn't read his release of liability! Those forms are filled out and the safety brief done before the boat is untied from the dock. I don't ask my certifying agency to sign off of anything before I boat dive, and it's ludicrous in the suit that they are responsible along with Bandito--they aren't babysitters. Is the department of motor vehicle licensing held liable if I get in a car wreck? IF the diver would have taken one or two or three breaths off of his regulator to check its operation before jumping off the boat, perhaps this thread would not exist. I've had bad air before and it tastes awful! His fins were loose? Who is to blame for that? Bandito isn't, nor is his buddy. We're adults--ask for assistance...don't jump off half cocked thinking it'll resolve itself underwater. My condolences for the bereaved family, they need to know diving is safe when all safety checks taught are observed. Rick you were named wrongly by someone who wants to collect from anyone....why isn't the manufacturer of the fins not named...that's how ridiculous I find Bandito being named here. Thanks for many excellent and very safe dives!

 

[BRT]

I tend to agree with this. If there is someone on the rear deck who is a DM, is it really "impossible" for them to dive in the water with a rope in hand (or throwable floatation device), swim, 50 feet and grab a hold of the victim, while the captain hauls them both back to the stern?

I'm not saying that was anything close to the actual accident, but if the SOP is to do nothing but yell encouraging words (because the DM has not equipped themselves to provide any lifeguard duties on the surface), I could see a family thinking that they might have a case.

I've worked as a DM on a few charter boats for many hundreds of trips and ALL of my "rescues" (except 2 I think) were panicked diver at the surface behind the boat scenarios. I would just dive in and haul their screaming butts back to the platform.

I'm not going to jump in the icewater and attempt to swim 50 feet and pull someone back unless I'm suited up. And I'm not going to be suited up unless I'm diving.

 

[chillyinCanada]

BRT would you have thrown the guy a life saver ring and attempt to haul the guy back to the boat or would you just say, oh well, not my problem.

Frankly, I'm confused as to the purpose of having unsuited DMs on board. Especially if they aren't prepared to help a diver in trouble.

 

[sharkbaitDAN]

My experience with local boats is the "DM" on board is there as a deck hand, who often happens to be a dive pro. Their primary job is to help divers in and out of the boat while the captain deals with the currents. It's rare to have rough conditions, so even if there is a strong current running, it's typically quite easy to lean back and keep your head out of the water. Also, in every rescue class I have heard of, jumping in after someone is the last option; rescue rule number one is don't create two victims. The article never said whether or not a life ring was thrown, but it seems evident the decedant didn't release his weights.

There is something very fishy about the fact pattern here. The article says he was in a class, so I'm confused where the instructor was. This would be someone from the shop, and I'm also confused as to why none of the other divers, who should have been geared up, jumped in. Most of the dives around here are current sensitive, so when the captain says go, you go. My experiences with local boats have been that everyone is geared up and ready when it's time to jump in.

 

[Wookie]

There is something very fishy about the fact pattern here. The article says he was in a class, so I'm confused where the instructor was. This would be someone from the shop, and I'm also confused as to why none of the other divers, who should have been geared up, jumped in. Most of the dives around here are current sensitive, so when the captain says go, you go. My experiences with local boats have been that everyone is geared up and ready when it's time to jump in.

Fact pattern? We have a newspaper article and a bunch of folks saying he was on a water taxi. I see that the only facts are that a person died and a lawsuit was filed.

 

[DandyDon]

Fact pattern? We have a newspaper article and a bunch of folks saying he was on a water taxi. I see that the only facts are that a person died and a lawsuit was filed.

Yeah, I think the suit has more possibilities with the source of the tainted tanks, but suits often attempt to involve others related to the accident.

I'm not going to jump in the icewater and attempt to swim 50 feet and pull someone back unless I'm suited up. And I'm not going to be suited up unless I'm diving.

Where are you, where is Oroville - central California? What makes you think that Puget Sound has ice water in November? It's probably about 50F. It may even be warmer than your nearby coastal water as it can spend some time off of the Bering current warming up in the sound even tho it's mixed with new Bering current water from tidal exchanges daily.

 

[Wookie]

I'm not going to jump in the icewater and attempt to swim 50 feet and pull someone back unless I'm suited up. And I'm not going to be suited up unless I'm diving.

What makes you think that Puget Sound has ice water in November? It's probably about 50F. It may even be warmer than your nearby coastal water as it can spend some time off of the Bering current warming up in the sound even tho it's mixed with new Bering current water from tidal exchanges daily.

The Coast Guard requires the safety observer (Captain or deckhand, they don't recognize a position called "divemaster", it means so little to them) to be in thermal protection and floatation appropriate for the temperature of the water. I think (but don't remember exactly without looking it up) that the minimum floatation for a rescuing person is 13 lbs. The thermal protection may be nothing south of the 38th parallel, but must be something north of there. It is important to note that the Coast Guard does not require you to go in the water to perform a rescue, in fact, they are fairly adamant about "reach, throw, row, go", but if you are the deckhand on a moored dive boat, you must be prepared to "go" when divers are in the water.

It is important to note that this is not codified. You won't find the dive boat regulations because that committee has not yet met. I will let everyone know when it does, and get input from the constituency, as I'm sure there are issues that Puget Sound dive boat operators face that we don't in the Florida Keys, temperature being high on the list. My information comes from Administrative Law Judge rulings that dive boats are not water taxis, and that the crew of such a boat has a duty of care to their passengers, both while embarked as well as in the water.

The excuse of "it's our job to get them to the dive site, it's their job to dive" cuts very little mustard when someone is about to lose their livelihood.

 

[DelrayDM]

I tend to agree with this. If there is someone on the rear deck who is a DM, is it really "impossible" for them to dive in the water with a rope in hand (or throwable floatation device), swim, 50 feet and grab a hold of the victim, while the captain hauls them both back to the stern?

My dimming memory tells me that a year or so ago that a boat captain lost her license because she allowed her divemaster(s) to jump in the water to try to save someone. She was supposed to have trained them to throw something first. I think this was North Carolina, South Carolina, maybe this year or last year. Wookie probably remembers the case to which I refer, I think I read about it here on scubaboard.