Suing culture

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ben arthur

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On a recent dive trip in the Red Sea, a couple of Australians I was with told me about their liveaboard trip to the Galapagos Islands.

The trip was a successful one, apart from it seems, one aspect.

The liveaboard had 2 zodiac boats, and the 2 aussies and a few non- Americans were often the first to be kitted up and into one of the zodiacs for each dive. However, they would often have to hang about in the zodiac, often for some time, waiting for the American divers on the main boat to kit up and get in the 2nd zodiac.

The reason for this : the operator was fearful that the americans would sue them if they were not the first in the water, as they might miss out on some of the big-fish action if they entered the water 'late'. I understand that some operators have been sued on this basis.

Not surprisingly, the 2 aussies were pretty p*ssed off with this, as would I be. Any intelligent / rational diver knows that nothing is ever guaranteed underwater, and that while some dive locations might potentially have certain fish they cannot be guaranteed - every diver has to accept this.

Does anyone know of any petty / ridiculous instances of divers suing?

I see from one of the earlier threads that some divers have sued their diving buddies on the basis that they had an accident and the buddy had not buddy-checked them, or not sufficiently! Hello ! Whatever happened to taking responsibility for one's self ?!

This post, by the way, is not a dig at Americans (other than perhaps American lawyers!!), but rather I'm disappointed that a sue culture has started to creep into the diving world (I guess I'd be naiive to think that it wouldn't happen).

Any comments / thoughts?
 
As an instructor, much of my efforts, time and money are devoted to liability protection. Instructors have been sued over everything you could imagine including things like ear infections.
 
I'm all for democracy and free rights, etc.. but thats the biggest flaw in the system.

Lack of accountability. Everything is done by commity, there for its never your fault. Rampant leagal finger pointing is just another extention of the whole 'it's not my fault' atitude. If it wasn't my fault I got hurt, then someone has to pay for it! Hehe.


Ofcourse, that is about a BAZILION times better than the quazi socalist crap we have in Canada.

I can't wait for my I130 to get processed so I can move to Florida.
 
“the operator was fearful that the americans would sue them if they were not the first in the water, as they might miss out on some of the big-fish action if they entered the water 'late'. I understand that some operators have been sued on this basis.”

Nonsense. The fact that the operator used this as an excuse does make it so. Why are untested rumors or lame excuses taken as gospel here?

A diver dissatisfied with a Red Sea dive operator would have to pursue a claim under local law. Do you think anyone would relish pursuing a claim against, say, an Egyptian under Egyptian law, or an Israeli under Isaeli law? Remember, unlike the rest of the world, the Americans actually enforce US laws that prohibit Americans from bribing foreign officials, putting the yank at a distinct disadvantage in many parts of the world.

Also, Australians have become as notoriously litigious as Americans (the economic redistribution NSW courts are engaged in would make an Alabama jury blush, prompting American-style tort reform). So why didn’t the operator ‘fear’ the Aussies?

IMHO, it seems more likely that the Americans were tipping better than anyone else. Although that doesn’t explain why they took so long to gear up.
 
We are rediculously sue happy here in the States. (Ie, the guy suing the fast food industry because he's fat!) But as someone else already stated, it has to be done through local law. (Usually nowhere near as easy as it is here in the US.)

JMO-

Kristey
 
Originally posted by DivePartner1
[BAlso, Australians have become as notoriously litigious as Americans (the economic redistribution NSW courts are engaged in would make an Alabama jury blush, prompting American-style tort reform). So why didn’t the operator ‘fear’ the Aussies?[/B]

So true. A NSW court recently awarded some d**khead $4 million AUD compensation (about $2.2 million USD) because he dived (as in jumped head first) into the water at a surf beach, and he hit his head on a sandbar and broke his neck. The court ruled that the local council had been negligent (apparently the local lifesavers hadn't placed warning signs about the sandbar), and was liable. How can a local council be liable for some damn Darwin Award candidate diving head first into water when he couldn't see the bottom?

Unfortunately they are taking cue from the US legal system, where all this rot started. The resulting massive jump in public liability insurance premiums resulting from this one ruling ended up with almost every doctor in the country refusing to operate from fear of being sued! Obstetrics also took a hit from a similar case where a person was awarded massive damages for brain damage they sustained in a botched forceps delivery over 20 years earlier - Victoria had 4 practicing obstetricians for a population of 4.5 million people as a result for a while.

I place the blame entirely on the small (is it small?) percentage of lawyers who actively advertise in every newspaper in the country for "victims" to come forward for free consultations and case assessment, encouraging people to sue. It's sick.
 
Ouch. It has to be someone's fault, and can't be his!

I wouldn't be so fast to blame the lawyers. It's not just lawyers--you wouldn't see these claims anywhere 'ordinary' folks who bring these claims blaming others for self-imposed hardships. And the lotto-award juries, so generous with the money of others, are also ‘ordinary’ folks. I can’t explain the judges.

What is the relevance to this thread? I don't see the $ in a breach of contract claim in the Red Sea, but the larger trend is dangerous.

If negligent divers or their next of kin succeed in shifting the blame for diver errors to others--making certification agencies or gear manufacturers de facto insurers--this sport is finished. This is why those disclaimers are such good things. Just think: diving--the last refuge of the responsible, competent individual.
 
I got one for ya..

Here in Austin, TX, at the capital grounds , we have had a stone with the 10 commandments on it. It has been there for about 40 yrs, and just now someone is suing the state for not practicing the seperation of church and state.

It is a bout 5fr tall, and it just has the commandments, and this guy is making a big hissy fit about it.

The funny thing is, this guy is homeless, and is representing himself, and really has no reason than just being bored, and needing attention, or money.
 
Well, the frontier alternative involved weapons...

But we are a tipping culture --- I don't believe Australia has picked up that habit for the most part yet...
 
Australia has a higher minimum wage I believe for most service type industries - tipping isn't thought of as required, and no-one really expects it, except for pizza delivery drivers who make nothing. That's not to say it's unheard of - tips are generally left in restaurants, and cab fares rounded up - we just don't leave a dollar on the bar every time we buy a drink. We also receive all of our change without asking - I've handed $20 notes over before in the US when the change has been $5, and received nothing back except a smile. That's been discussed previously on this board as well. Australia isn't the only country that doesn't have a tipping culture, and I'm sure the US isn't the only country that does.
 

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