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stuck insert in provalve

Discussion in 'Tanks, Valves and Bands' started by mjones78, Oct 18, 2016.

  1. Peter69_56

    Peter69_56 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Warragul Australia
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    You see many of them in Thailand unable to remove them. Thats what happens when you keep the tanks on a boat, never wash them, and never service them for 10 years. If serviced regularly they are no issue. Thats not to say you must service the valve yearly, but how about taking out the insert periodically and washing it as its the bit of the valve exposed to salt water through the thread.

    For those who espouse using yoke only over these valves, if you dont service the thread on your yoke reg, it gets tight too. Same same. Regardless of the type of gear you use, washing it and servicing it regularly should give you years of trouble free use. I have had DIN valve tanks for some 11 years and have never had an issue with an insert.
     
  2. Doby45

    Doby45 Do I have something in my teeth?

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    I do not store inserts in my DIN valves, period. I carry two inserts in my dive bag and a yoke adapter. Be prepared.
     
    DEdiveguy1 likes this.
  3. Frontpointer1000

    Frontpointer1000 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: A little higher, a little colder
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    What kind of lubricant is supposed to be used?
     
  4. Peter69_56

    Peter69_56 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Warragul Australia
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    If only air then silicone grease, however if using Nitrox then Crystal Lube, to be oxygen safe I use Crystal lube or equivalent oxygen safe grease on all my gear.

    When we were in Coron, the local shop owner said he used a DIN fill fitting as it made the fill boy remove every insert every day so they wouldn't stick in due to the fill boy being lazy. Another way around it I suppose.

    Even if you didn't pull them out fully, just loosening them occasionally should break any salt buildup/corrosion that locks them in. A clean and lube once or twice a year and all should be well.
     
  5. tbone1004

    tbone1004 ScubaBoard Supporter ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: I'm a Fish!
    Location: Greenville, South Carolina, United States
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    @Peter69_56 the difference in your yoke screw vs the inserts though is that the yoke screws are manipulated at least 2x/dive where the inserts are almost never touched. Filling via DIN is more time consuming and very annoying, and leaving them out puts the valves at risk of getting knocked out of round and is why I'm not a fan of DIN regs for rental fleets.

    @awap I'll have to half disagree with you on the high force being a last resort. There is nothing wrong with using the right allen key and something like a dead blow hammer to try to jar the threads. No different than using an impact wrench on a stubborn nut. The problems usually come when people use cheater bars. Area under the curve is MUCH higher when using a cheater bar or any sustained force because the curve is steeper and that can cause things to bend, strip, etc. Using impact force puts a very high force on the object, but for a very short amount of time and limits damage to things like threads. For din inserts, it is the perfect application for impact force to break the threads loose, and the most effective way is to jar it in the tightening direction first since that will lift the threads off of each other and then it is likely going to back out on its own.
     
  6. Peter69_56

    Peter69_56 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Warragul Australia
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    I take your point re rentals and the risks you point out. However that would have to be balanced against being set up for both DIN and Yoke as a LDS. I guess in US where its mainly say 80% yoke I can understand not having inserts and just making the diver compensate if they have DIN on the odd occasion (although if you have a lot of tech divers coming through DIN would suit and attract them more. I know when I dive tech I dont dive with a company that cannot offer DIN valves). Much of the rest of the world is a fair mix from 50/50 to maybe 80/20 so an insert is the best way forward for those LDS. If it means they must check the inserts occasionally its not much of a job to remove them all once every 2 months (in my opinion anyway), but I am not a LDS so its only what I think I would do in your case.

    For the individual, I still believe the insert valve is the most flexible and if looked after, not a big bother or issue. Mine are all DIN but I have some friends who I dive with occasionally that use Yoke and so my cylinders a good for both with an insert, Each to their own.

    I have found that if you get a plug (or insert) frozen in, often you can warm the whole valve with a hair dryer, and then use a cold spray on the insert which will then shrink the insert in relation to the valve body and thus release it. You can also get a larger alan key and grind it to fit a damaged insert so its a tighter fit which also helps.
     
  7. Scared Silly

    Scared Silly Regular of the Pub

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
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    Picking nits here but there is no such thing as silicone grease or oxygen safe grease. Grease is an oily or fatty matter. It is silicone lubricant or oxygen safe lubricant.
     
  8. Peter69_56

    Peter69_56 Divemaster

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Warragul Australia
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    I stand corrected AGAIN.......Damn

    Yes you are right its a lubricant not a grease as such.

    Old persons generic term for lubricant.
     
    Sawdust82 and KWS like this.
  9. The Chairman

    The Chairman Chairman of the Board

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    Out of the box... instead of a hex bit, see if you can fit a Torx into the insert. It;s best if you have to tap (not hammer) it in. Now use a hand held impact driver to loosen it up. Here is one from Harbor freight...

    [​IMG]
     
    DEdiveguy1 likes this.
  10. Hickdive

    Hickdive Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Glasgow, UK
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    Lie the cylinder down and, with the valve shut, carefully pour a 5% white vinegar solution into the valve cup. Leave for 24 hours, topping up as necessary, and then try again. The crud binding in the adapter may have dissolved enough to enable it to be removed.

    Assuming the hex is not rounded then the right key and a length of steel pipe over the end of the key will give sufficient leverage to crack it out.

    Don't lubricate the threads. All that does is absorb salt which dries out, creating that nasty white residue that binds the threads. Take the adapter out and wash it and the valve with fresh water periodically. If there is still residue after fresh water rinsing then try the white vinegar solution again. The "lubrication" on these things is actually the chrome finish; keep that clean and you won't have a problem.
     
    DEdiveguy1 likes this.

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