Strange event, no air

[Nemrod]

Question: What was your rationale for not going straight to the surface when you had two failing regs? If you are not breathing, you are not really offgassing either, so a safety stop is neither effective nor warranted? Wouldn't the safer option be to surface sooner?

There is a gas exhange. The air in my lungs was 32% at start of event, the exchange would have been reduced but not stopped. I did go the surface after sorting the issue, and ascertaining my buddy was not at hand. I proceeded upward at something less than 60 fpm. In order to do the valve check and switch regulators I needed to get my camera stowed and that mostly takes two hands. Thus additional time. At 30 feet I was not terribly concerned.

You can draw lessons from this, critique what I did, what went wrong, what you would do different, thus the discussion. That is why I put the thread up. It is all useful. Thanks. Good points. I accounted for the approximate (very approximate) time, that is what it was. I will do better next time which hopefully there will not be another next time.

Not even a tiger shark could get my camera away from me, a minor incident in 30 feet (that could have been a much more concerning issue on a deeper dive), I ain't leaving my camera or doing anything until it is parked away nicely and happy, even if I am not quite happy yet myself .

 

[Nemrod]

I think what is meant here is that with a DIN valve, the o-ring stays with the regulator not the valve, so you are in control of maintaining it in a good state of repair.

The DIN fill whip or a removed regulator could have left a bad O-ring loose in the valve. A careless operator could then have installed another O-ring on the male fill whip or regulator and not removed the one that came off in the female valve head and when pressurized then shoved the O-ring into the dip tube if filling the tank or into the sintered filter when pressurizing the regulator.

As I said, I do not really know how the O-ring got there but I do not think DIN gets you free and clear on this one.

 

[Imla]

There is a gas exhange. The air in my lungs was 32% at start of event, the exchange would have been reduced but not stopped. I did go the surface after sorting the issue, and ascertaining my buddy was not at hand. I proceeded upward at something less than 60 fpm. In order to do the valve check and switch regulators I needed to get my camera stowed and that mostly takes two hands. Thus additional time. At 30 feet I was not terribly concerned.

You can draw lessons from this, critique what I did, what went wrong, what you would do different, thus the discussion. That is why I put the thread up. It is all useful. Thanks. Good points. I accounted for the approximate (very approximate) time, that is what it was. I will do better next time which hopefully there will not be another next time.

Not even a tiger shark could get my camera away from me, a minor incident in 30 feet (that could have been a much more concerning issue on a deeper dive), I ain't leaving my camera or doing anything until it is parked away nicely and happy, even if I am not quite happy yet myself .

I was honest curiosity behind the question. Staying calm and collected after 1-2 minutes post last is impressive either way.

 

[Altamira]

A couple of years ago, I bought a new XS Scuba/Faber HP80 from a highly respected LDS. After the first dive (with no problems), I heard a metallic something rolling around in the tank as I was taking it back to get refilled. Apparently, the dip tube was not properly installed by the manufacturer, and disconnected at some point in the dive. Luckily it caused no problem, but the LDS had to disassemble the valve, do a visual, and then gave me the refill at no cost. No problem since then, and a good learning experience for me.

 

[Nemrod]

I was honest curiosity behind the question. Staying calm and collected after 1-2 minutes post last is impressive either way.

I used to free dive. I am in pretty good shape for a 70 yo. I also breath hold practice while swimming laps. Of course do not tell the Y guards because that is against the rules! I say used to free dive because a long, long, time ago, spearfishing on the rigs in Louisiana I had a near SWB event, I mostly just grayed out. I had descended to about 80 feet and speared an amberjack. We had safety divers and one immediantly came to my aid. Anyways, that is off topic, I decided that was not my cup of tea, but regardless, the point is I do train to survive short periods without air. Freediving to 30 or so feet is not a big deal for me, so, OOA at 30 feet, not desireable, mostly annoying. At 60 feet or more I would have been in (big) trouble holding everything else equal and the same. For a new diver, at night, yeah, could have been bad. So adjust your considerations to match your realistic capabilities and experience. Everyone, anyone, can and will eventually panic, well, maybe not but if there is an OOA malfunction and no back up in form of a buddy or alternate system, what does it matter if you calmly die or bolt to the surface, deceased is still deceased.

 

[boulderjohn]

does not Padi and many recommend 30 fpm for ascent above 30 feet?

Back when the PADI RDP was created, 60 FPM was the norm. PADI's recommendation was to go no faster than 60 FPM. Its research showed that slower was generally fine, so no adjustments needed to be made for folks going slower than that.

When the computer era dawned, PADI's recommendation changed to going at the rate recommended by your computer. That is their current recommendation. Since most computers recommend 30 FPM, PADI's recommendation is in effect 30 FPM.

 

[lexvil]

My first thought was, those G 250’s will kill ya, only 99.9997% reliable

By the end before the reveal I was at plugged inlet, assuming tank gunk but the discovered cause was really interesting. Most go to dive locations have very helpful people you will hook up you reg etc even if you don’t want them too, I don’t know if this was the cause but is it possible that one of the boat hands had switched your tank and had an oring issue?

As to assent rate without air, treatments for being bent is usually more successful than treatment for drowning.

Very interesting event.

 

[rx7diver]

@Nemrod,

I've been wondering if, now that Ms. Nemrod is on hiatus from diving and, so, is no longer your dedicated dive buddy, you had decided to take your Alum 20 with you on all your deeper-than-shallow dives.

rx7diver

 

[Nemrod]

Back when the PADI RDP was created, 60 FPM was the norm. PADI's recommendation was to go no faster than 60 FPM. Its research showed that slower was generally fine, so no adjustments needed to be made for folks going slower than that.

When the computer era dawned, PADI's recommendation changed to going at the rate rate recommended by your computer. That is their current recommendation. Since most computers recommend 30 FPM, PADI's recommendation is in effect 30 FPM.

That is where I drew that statement regarding 30 fpm. The 60 fpm is my reference point, to be slower than that. Thanks for the info reminder. Some computers get unhappy if exceed 30 fpm and beep and fuss.

 

[Nemrod]

@Nemrod,

I've been wondering if, now that Ms. Nemrod is on hiatus from diving and, so, is no longer your dedicated dive buddy, you had decided to take your Alum 20 with you on all your deeper-than-shallow dives.

rx7diver

Carrying 19/30 cf pony bottle on intenational trips is just not practical from my perspective. I was with a group of divers I have been with on many dives over as much as 20 years. Night dives in Cozumel on Paradise Reef can be a cluster due to so many other operators. The weather was deteriorating so the captain chose not to take us where I requested and go there instead, as did everybody else. That is really what got me separated at that very moment of OOA. Yes, with my wife no longer diving, at least for now, I have lost my trusted and patient dive buddy. Adjustments are going to have to be made.

You can prepare for the unlikely however you wish, I am reporting what happened to me, what I found to have caused it and what I did during the event. How others wish to resolve such remote possibilities (that do happen) is up to you and them. A pony bottle would certainly have been nice. I am not blaming my buddy/buddies or anybody but me for the separation.

Diving now actively for 57 years I have had three OOA events. The first was an actual OOA in 1982, spoken of before, the next was a few years back on the Jupiter Deep Ledge, multiple equipment malfunctions contributed and now this one in Cozumel due to an occluded sintered filter. The first my wife was my buddy, we used buddy breathing from 80 feet depth to 30 feet where I ascended the remainder on my own. The Jupiter Incident I am not going into here as I already have gone on about it enough (that fiasco is in several threads somewhere about including on vdh forum), and the third, this one is reported herein.

Each has led to changes, in the first we got new octopus equipped regs, in the second I got new equipment, quit using double hose regulators (mostly) and made a bunch of other changes, this one, not sure yet. Not sure what I can do about unknown FOD in my tank. I really hate to start slinging a pony and a camera, a lot of equipment to haul about. Not sure yet. Maybe just to be yet more careful and do a better job of staying with a buddy and closer to my group even if I forgo some photo ops.