Stop steering new divers in North America towards DIN regulators

[Storker]

has anyone ever seen [a 300 bar rental tank]?

Lots of times.

 

[Storker]

Yes, are you trying to suggest the UK is not in Europe? Oh, wait....

Honestly, since I was talking only of the region I know I was just trying to find out which part you were talking of.

But your interpretation was funnier

 

[rhwestfall]

what the???????

 

[tbzep]

Yes, the 4500's and now 5500's (Scott calls them the 5.5) have an aluminum inner shell and are completely wrapped in carbon fiber and fiberglass with an epoxy resin. MSA tops out at 4500, afaik. Most 2216's are made the same way today, but you can still get hoop wound aluminum (fiberglass wrapped mid section) and solid aluminum 2216's from MSA.

We use Scott and MSA and that's all that any of our neighboring depts have, to my knowledge. If you want to look up other SCBA manufacturers, I know of ISI, Avon, Draeger, Interspiro, and Survivair, but I don't know if they are all still making them and I don't know if they make their own tanks.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I got back from Indonesia on Sunday. I dived with four different operators and was on boats with probably 30 other divers. DIN was everywhere. . . .

Fair enough. My experience was just one data point, as was yours. In Bali specifically--Pemuteran, Tulamben, and Lembongan--I saw very little DIN in use. This may be because many divers who visit Bali are budget diver types who rent all their gear, and dive operators with fleets of rental gear tend to use yoke, not DIN. Indeed, those of us who brought our own gear were the tiny minority. I did see someone who had brought their own gear use DIN, and I believe the tank was convertible with a plug insert. Unless a diver were to specify in advance that he needs a DIN tank, the dive op personnel would default to having the tank ready to receive a yoke reg. To reiterate, for this reason, I am glad I brought yoke regs for this particular trip. Elsewhere in Indonesia--indeed elsewhere in Bali--may differ from my experience. For example, I suppose if I had dived with Tauch Terminal in Tulamben instead of Liberty Dive Resort, I probably would have seen a lot more DIN tanks. Still, from my observations not only on this trip but previous ones in places around the world (excluding Europe), yoke remains the universal default among recreational dive operators.

 

[DiverDownD3]

I've followed this thread on and off. Maybe it's my inexperience, but is it really that big of a deal to use a DIN to yoke adapter? Or the insert on DIN tanks if you have yoke?

I have a DIN reg, never had an issue with the using an adapter. Is my life in danger and I didn't even know about it?!!!!!111

 

[Lorenzoid]

why do they need to make substantial changes to their reg sets? that is my whole argument, look at your END diving goals, and buy equipment appropriate for that. . . .

I took Fundies in recreational single-tank configuration, though my "end goal" is cave. In changing my gear from traditional jacket BC, octopus, etc., over to GUE/DIR style, I bought a DIN reg set and took Fundies using that. After a few Caribbean trips--Cozumel, Bonaire, etc.--I got tired of the hassles and changed the DIN fitting to yoke. Even in S. Florida, I clearly recall this exchange a few years ago when picking up a rental tank:
ME: "Oh, this is a yoke tank. I need DIN."
SHOP EMPLOYEE: "We're out of DIN. Some should be returned soon. Come back in a few hours."
Sure, a few years later their tanks have now probably all been upgraded with removable inserts. But that exchange was the straw that broke the camel's back in prompting me to forsake yoke for single-tank recreational diving. Recently, I bought a doubles reg set that is of course DIN. But for single-tank recreational travel diving, I am convinced that yoke is the way to go to ensure hassle-free single-tank diving anywhere in the world.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I've followed this thread on and off. Maybe it's my inexperience, but is it really that big of a deal to use a DIN to yoke adapter? Or the insert on DIN tanks if you have yoke?

Two complaints about the DIN-to-yoke adapter are often heard:
(1) the possibility of forgetting to bring it with you
(2) the reduction of the clearance between the back of your head and the reg by a half inch or so results in some people feeling they can't tilt their head back without it hitting the reg. This depends on how high or low you like your tank mounted on the BC, what kind of reg it is, and perhaps other factors.

The removable insert for DIN tanks is a great invention. However, if a diver has a yoke reg, then either the diver or the dive operator needs to have such an insert available. If every DIN tank could be guaranteed to have a removable insert, there would be no problem. But that is not the case. These things can get lost, and a dive operator may not have enough on hand to ensure there is one for every tank. Also, there is some minor inconvenience to the dive operator in providing them ... because they can get lost. When I have rented a tank with a removable insert from a dive shop, the shop insisted on removing it and holding onto it. They didn't want me to lose it. Having someone remove it took a few extra minutes. That was a dive shop, and I was just picking up a tank on a leisurely morning. Now, I picture a busy charter operator trying to get 20 divers situated with tanks in the half hour allotted for check-in before the boat leaves the dock. Things are already pretty chaotic. I can imagine having to get someone to make sure the tank I get has a DIN insert and have them remove it. A very minor hassle for sure, but still something I'd rather avoid having to deal with.

 

[halocline]

I've followed this thread on and off. Maybe it's my inexperience, but is it really that big of a deal to use a DIN to yoke adapter? Or the insert on DIN tanks if you have yoke?

I have a DIN reg, never had an issue with the using an adapter. Is my life in danger and I didn't even know about it?!!!!!111

There's no problem using the adapter occasionally, but it would be really dumb to buy a DIN reg with the intention of using it primarily on yoke tanks with an adapter. They negate all of the advantages of DIN and they really do put the reg close to your head which is a big pain in the neck for divers who position their tanks relatively high on their backs.

And have fun getting one of those adapters off your reg if you repeatedly use it in salt water and leave it on. It's exactly the same with the yoke inserts for the convertible tanks. If those tanks are used primarily as rental tanks with yoke regs, and the inserts are not removed after salt water use, they get really fused in place. It's because the threads are not o-ring protected, so salt water penetrates them and then dries in place. This is a recipe for serious corrosion. How do you imagine the threads on those valves look after a few seasons of rentals?

 

[DiverDownD3]

All the issues being brought up are easily preventable with a checklist and caring for your equipment properly. As for the adapter hitting the back of your head, yes I've noticed it before.
My original comment was mostly tongue in cheek. I guess my feelings are they are both proven and reliable systems and there are tools to convert them. People are going to dive what they dive, as long as they are safe and having fun, does it really matter?