Still confused about inflator and hose maintenance

[DiverGuam]

I use the Zeagle inflator, since they are threaded on I can quickly switch it out either with another one or an Atomic SS1, so far when one gets sticky I just unscrew it and toss it in a bucket of water for a few days.

This is really the best, and Zeagle when they first came out with the screw-on version was going to have a higher flow version. But they were just about to get bought out by Huish, and the never came out with theirs.

Atomic DID come out with their screw on high flow inflator , and it makes for a incredibly nice inflator. People are just not used to paying over $100.00 for their inflator though, but it does make for inflators never being an issue ever again.

 

[Couv]

Atomics, ScubaPro and I'm sure a few other manufactures have balanced inflators. I've rarely seen a balanced inflator have sticking issues or even fail with the regularity than unbalanced inflators do. I know SP inflators are very easy to service & the hose fitting on a SP unit is also very easy to service-unlike the schrader valve types.

 

[DiverGuam]

The K inflators are balanced inflators and they fail pretty regularly. The issue is one of design.

"They" tried to build an inflator that could be quickly re-cored as needed, but it's that very core based design that traps the salt water in the body and causes it to fail. The metal corrodes into chunks, and the O-rings just get worked by both trapped seawater, and free bits of corrosion wandering around. And it's not like rinsing can get out the trapped seawater, unlike the Atomic , which uses better materials. and a better design that avoids corrosion, and trapping.

I used to chase the core based concept around, but really just switching over the the screw-ons works so much better in so many ways. The Zeagles are a decent choice, but suffer from slow inflation from the two Schraders (One in the hose, one in the body) lined up both restricting flow

The Atomics (for me, the SS1s) are just amazing. The inflator hose also lasts much longer in service that the Shrader hose in service, and never develop that bubbling around the inflator nipple. That's also a materials choice issue, because while the Air2 fitting can last longer than a regular inflator fitting, it still corrodes and fails over time. The Atomic SS1 fitting last years of daily use without a rebuild, outliving multiple LP hoses. I really don't have the same level of years, adn years of experience with the Atomic AI inflator (you cannot swap out the hose on the fitting on those, so I stay away from them.)

I keep around a pile of ScubaPro inflator, because they are not really worth selling after I swap them out, but I prefer to just put a spin on adapter on all the BCDs and never have to think about it ever again.

 

[saxman242]

The inflator hose also last much longer in service that the Shrader hose in service, and never develop that bubbling around the inflator nipple.

Does the Atomic inflator use the same lp hose connector as the SS1?

 

[tursiops]

The K inflators are balanced inflators and they fail pretty regularly. The issue is one of design.

"They" tried to build an inflator that could be quickly re-cored as needed, but it's that very core based design that traps the salt water in the body and causes it to fail. The metal corrodes into chunks, and the O-rings just get worked by both trapped seawater, and free bits of corrosion wandering around. And it's not like rinsing can get out the trapped seawater, unlike the Atomic , which uses better materials. and a better design that avoids corrosion, and trapping.

I used to chase the core based concept around, but really just switching over the the screw-ons works so much better in so many ways. The Zeagles are a decent choice, but suffer from slow inflation from the two Schraders (One in the hose, one in the body) lined up both restricting flow

The Atomics (for me, the SS1s) are just amazing. The inflator hose also lasts much longer in service that the Shrader hose in service, and never develop that bubbling around the inflator nipple. That's also a materials choice issue, because while the Air2 fitting can last longer than a regular inflator fitting, it still corrodes and fails over time. The Atomic SS1 fitting last years of daily use without a rebuild, outliving multiple LP hoses. I really don't have the same level of years, adn years of experience with the Atomic AI inflator (you cannot swap out the hose on the fitting on those, so I stay away from them.)

I keep around a pile of ScubaPro inflator, because they are not really worth selling after I swap them out, but I prefer to just put a spin on adapter on all the BCDs and never have to think about it ever again.

Interesting, these Schraeder valve failures. I've never had one or seen one, after thousands of dives over decades, all over the world, usually in groups of 10+ people. What I HAVE seen the most of is inflator failures...slow leaks into the bladder. In second place is failure of the internal o-ring in the QD sleeve, the one that is hard to replace without the little magic tool.
P.S. - I have seen Schraeder valves get loose a few times, and need tightening.

 

[emoreira]

I've never heard of balanced and unbalanced inflators, and I can't imagine what that means and if that would have any specific advantage.
I've already disassembled several types of inflator valves and more or less I can identify two types of inflators : those with commercial standard shraeder valves, and those with add-hoc valves. Both work in the same way. Its a valve seat pressed with a spring and a stem connected to a button.

 

[DiverGuam]

I've never heard of balanced and unbalanced inflators, and I can't imagine what that means and if that would have any specific advantage.
I've already disassembled several types of inflator valves and more or less I can identify two types of inflators : those with commercial standard shraeder valves, and those with add-hoc valves. Both work in the same way. Its a valve seat pressed with a spring and a stem connected to a button.

Generally speaking, that's exactly the dividing point. Think about balanced and unbalanced piston first stages, or balanced and unbalanced second stages.

Schrader valves fail when the spring fails, the bin bends, or the seating surface gets dislodged. But most importantly all the flow goes through that tiny little space, and that make the flow rate suck. And that why tech bladders use balanced inflators, and not Schrader valve inflators, because the performance of a Schrader valve inflator is always limited by the opening size. At recreational depths that may be hard to notice, but at 100 meters it's a very real and noticeable thing.

The balanced fails when something wears out the sealing O-Rings. and the spring action is not acting against the intermediate pressure. The spring is pulling across the flow.

The general difference is that the flow through a non Schrader valve, or a balanced versus unbalanced piston first stage, is about 10x the flow through a Schrader valve inflator. That's hidden somewhat by the fact that most inflator hoses use a Schrader in them as well which restricts flow.

This is kinda along the lines of why alternate inflator regs need a non Schrader hose to make sure there is enough airflow to a dive to breathe off if at depth. Basically choose your example, and downstream versus balanced means restricted air flow/reduced performance versus increased airflow/better performance. For piston first stages, for second stages, and for inflators.

If you swap out the nipple on the inflator for an Air2 nipple on a balanced inflator (K valve, SP inflator, Atomic Inflator, Air2s), and use an Air2 hose, the difference in flow is pretty obvious, because there is neither Schrader valve restricting air flow in either the hose or the inflator.

 

[Couv]

If you swap out the nipple on the inflator for an Air2 nipple...and use an Air2 hose, the difference in flow is pretty obvious, because there is neither Schrader valve restricting air flow in either the hose or the inflator.

This is exactly what the older SP inflators have-and why I prefer them over the current setup. The AIR 2 QD is removable and easy to service. The seal is a large sealing washer that can be sourced from McMaster Carr. High flow, dependable, and low maintenance.

 

[emoreira]

I rebuilt an Aqualung Airsource 3. Some pieces were missing, so I designed and printed in my 3D print.
The inflator hose, which also serves the integrated octopus has no shreader valve, but a cut off valve that cuts the flow off in case the inflator valve leaks.
The inflator valve is quite similar to that of a standard K inflator valve, and, I guess, this is what you mention as a "Balanced inflator valve". Considering your point now I understand the meaning of balanced/unbalanced in an inflator valve.
Thanks for the lesson.

 

[DiverGuam]

This is exactly what the older SP inflators have-and why I prefer them over the current setup.

Are you saying the new SP inflators use Schraders?