Starting Classes Tomorrow - Advice Needed!

[Jim Lapenta]

Just an FYI, when Lloyd Bridges or Chuck Norris puts their mask on their forehead the water gets distressed. This will probably get tossed for being off topic.

 

[RJP]

Ha! You should check this out!

https://youtu.be/lsUnxYNwJBE

FWIW, diving the reefs off Waikiki, we usually saw at least 1 or 2 Blacktip sharks on each dive. Not as impressive as the Bull sharks in the Cozumel/Cancun area, but made up for by having lots of other stuff to see. There are 3 sunken ships (artificial reefs) off Waikiki. I dove them all last month and enjoyed them. Diving the Sea Tiger in the morning and then going back and diving it again as a night dive was way cool. I also dove the LCU (another sunken ship) off the west side of Oahu. It was okay, but the reefs in that area were a lot more interesting than the reefs right off Waikiki. There was also a sunken airplane right next to the LCU.

Hawaiian Diving Adventures can take you to all those places. And, if you get certified for it before you go, they can provide Nitrox, which some other shops can't. The Nitrox class is just one classroom session with no dives, so it's totally worth doing as soon as you can. I did mine 2 weeks after I finished OW, but I think some places offer it combined in with the OW class itself.

One additional note about Nitrox class. If you think you might EVER, down the road, want to get certified for decompression diving, one of the prerequisites will be the Technical Nitrox class (e.g. TDI Nitrox - versus the Recreational Nitrox class, e.g. SDI Computer Nitrox or whatever PADI calls it - Enriched Air/Nitrox?). Both classes are basically just one classroom session and no dives. The only practical difference is that the Tech class teaches you everything from the Rec class plus it teaches you how to use Nitrox based on tables. The Rec class only teaches how to use Nitrox using a dive computer. Using tables means using some formulas and doing some basic arithmetic. Though you also learn how to do it using only tables, without doing the arithmetic. Anyway, I only mention this because I wish someone had told ME the same thing. Then I would have skipped the Rec Nitrox class and gone straight to the Tech Nitrox class. Just to save some time. And, possibly, some money. TDI Nitrox has no prereqs beyond Open Water cert.

And even if you don't plan to learn how to do decompression dives, the extra knowledge you get in the TDI Nitrox class makes it worth taking anyway, I think.

Do you get a commission on the TDI Nitrox course? You seem to be able to work a plug for it into every thread.



---------- Post added April 21st, 2015 at 07:50 PM ----------

Checking for signs of trouble with anyone who gives you reason for concern is good, no arguement.

I am against calling out to perfectly calm people, who typically are not even in the water and harassing them. This is what happened to the thread originator (while not in the water) and it's happened to me several times in the past as well - never when I was actually in the water. On these occasions I was told that by putting my mask on my forehead I was signalling (i.e. puposefully, conciously communicating) a desire for help - and that's nonsense.

 

[OliviaRose]

3rd Pool Session - SO Frustrating!

Okay, so pool 3 was tonight and nothing short of a disaster... For the first time, I was not the only student in the class; the other two students were a husband and wife pair. We started by doing our wide-strides into the water, and the wife did a face plant. I totally get it - I did the exact same thing the first time I tried it in full gear during the previous class, got out of the water and did it again correctly. She immediately started to become extremely uncomfortable, and to her credit, explained how she felt to our instructor.

To make a long story short, she was never able to maintain control of herself at any point in the class. We would begin a skill, her husband and I would go first and then she would panic and bolt to the surface. About halfway through, after getting literally nothing done except starting fin pivots, instructor said that we all needed to 'review pool 2 skills' and would not be finishing session 3... Regulator retrieval and mask clearing were too much for her, so again he just worked with her and I swam around the shallow end of the pool practicing my buoyancy skills on my own. I was actually perfectly weighted by some great luck, so it was fun of course, but I am there to learn and not just swim around.

The reason I am annoyed with the whole thing is that there was no reason I shouldn't have been able to go on to the other skills. I understand that if someone is freaking out, the instructor must pay attention to them until they regain control of themselves. However, shouldn't her dive been terminated given this was happening the whole time? Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about doing the skills again or spending a little more time in the pool - I love it and think it's always good to practice, especially in the early stages of learning.

Anyways - It was fine and my instructor did sort of apologize for the inconvenience after the class and thanked me for my patience... and it was fun and peaceful just swimming about, no harm in that Is this normally how this is handled?

Side note - I now see what everyone means about removing the mask in the water, she kept ripping it off and it was definitely a bit concerning...

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2015 at 12:12 AM ----------

Don't ask, because I have no idea how she made it through the first two classes. Maybe the face dive into the water really scared her?

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2015 at 12:56 AM ----------

I think that what really got to me today, looking back, is that I really wanted to get into the deep end of the pool. I haven't really been able to "test" my ears yet, it is making me nervous, and I just wanted to get more water over my head and see how it went... you know what I mean? I don't know anyone else who dives so you guys are my only advice here haha! ctopus:

 

[RJP]

I was actually perfectly weighted by some great luck, so it was fun of course, but I am there to learn and not just swim around.

Hey Olivia... that's great news! Because "just swimming around" is learning, and is one of the things that will benefit you the most as you move on to open water. In a survey I fielded a few weeks ago among ~700 divers regarding their pool training "Free time to swim around and practice" was one of the top things that correlated with training success... and most people don't get enough!

Consider "the pool half full" based on the fact that if the other student had nailed all the skills... you would have been deprived of valuable practice time that many students never get!

Best regards,

Ray

 

[Yoyodyne-88]

Sounds very normal to me.

A class of three is relatively small. You have become accustomed to individual attention, but that is quite unusual. Often with a half-dozen or more students in the pool, it is very normal for students to "swim around" and practice their on own or with a buddy while the instructor gives one-on-one attention to assist each student with their particular needs. That is not wasted time for you, it is valuable skill development. Enjoy and use it to build your comfort with each skill you add.


No instructor wants to "terminate" one student. We no longer teach on a "pass/fail" standard or run a Navy Seal bootcamp like in the bad old days. Just the opposite, we want to have everyone develop their confidence and skill - without fear of being flunked out. Happy students learn better and will be safer divers. Our responsibility is to give them give them the time and specific help they need to adapt and overcome their problems. Everyone is different.

It is a very common truth that husband-and-wife student pairs often have one who is gung-ho and the other much more hestitant, but doing it to be a good partner. That one is often feeling very helpless or fearful, but trying hard to keep up. Try to see it from her point of view. Your patience will help the instructor to help her and by the end she may well develop and thrive.

As a diver in the real world, for instance on a boat, you will likely often be part of a random group where different folks need different strokes, and a 'team spirit' can really enhance the outcome for everyone. A good divemaster or leader will use the tact and same diplomatic approach that your pool instructor seems to be showing.

As this "team" develops you will probably have the opportunity to help your fellow student gain confidence. Try to see that a a plus in your own training experience.

 

[azmodan50]

It's happens in small groups. That's why I like the college setting. There's usually over 20 students so there's an instructor and 2+ assistants. If one student falls behind, the assistants can help that person catch up to the rest of the group.

And as Yoyodyne mentioned, you may find yourself with an insta-buddy that is at a different skill level then you. Having patience with that person will help them improve and may even give you a warm fuzzy feeling that you helped someone. Worse case scenario, which has happened to me before, is the insta-buddy thumbs the dive and your day is over.

 

[Nasser]

Well in my estimation that's actually a very good sign. It shows that the center you are training with actually CARES about providing thorough and safe training for everyone.... rather than just ushering people through the course that haven't acquired these basic skills. Can you imagine if that person was you? Is it fair or even safe for someone who's paid for the course not to get the full benefit of proper training with a competent instructor? and more importantly... be a danger to themselves and other divers in the future by not acquiring these fundimental skills?

There are a few divers in the water these days that probably have no business diving quite yet and were given certs by irresponsible instructors/centers that don't care about the quality of training they're providing... regardless if the student is ready or not.

Think about it... you're on your dive trip to Hawaii and you get paired with an "insta-buddy" and it's clear this person does not have the comfort level or minimum skill to dive safely. Would you be cool diving with this person? what if sh*t goes down - is this insta-buddy someone you feel you can rely on in an emergency?

Sounds a little dramatic, but I have seen this quite a bit in the more densely populated tourist destinations and have personally experienced several situations where new divers really struggled with basic skills or were not quite ready for OW dives... and I still see it.

Not trying to be patronizing... and I know there are a few instructors on this thread that do genuinely care and probably would have done the same thing as the instructor you're training with. So consider yourself lucky that you're with an organization that does seem to show thoroughness and patience with their students. If you want to move at your own pace then you should seek private instruction, otherwise you're going to have to hang (and practice) until the other students can get it together... and three in one class is still not a big class at all.

 

[OliviaRose]

Thanks all, you're right! It was very enjoyable swimming around and I was able to practice things, like floating just above the bottom without touching, my kick, etc. without being tested the whole time so you all make really great points. It gave me time to just be in the gear and work with it a little on my own. I shouldn't have been so quick to get annoyed!

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2015 at 10:57 AM ----------

Think about it... you're on your dive trip to Hawaii and you get paired with an "insta-buddy" and it's clear this person does not have the comfort level or minimum skill to dive safely. Would you be cool diving with this person? what if sh*t goes down - is this insta-buddy someone you feel you can rely on in an emergency?

Honestly, I worry a little about the whole "insta-buddy" thing for that exact reason. I don't want to be the person to have to terminate a dive early because of my ears and ruin it for my buddy, for example. I also don't want to get assigned a buddy who is very scared or nervous in the water. I was looking at some of the resort certification programs in Hawaii as a possibility for my fiancé, and was shocked that people do the whole thing in a few days... It's a little scary.

And yes, my dive center does care, a lot, and they are excellent. Our instructor was exceptionally patient and kind to the student who was having a lot of trouble and I wouldn't have wanted him to push her through it, of course. I tried to make her feel better after the face-crash into the water by telling her that I had done it too on Sunday! We all are going to make mistakes or have a little trouble with one skill than another, etc.

Thanks again everyone!!

 

[Nasser]

Honestly, I worry a little about the whole "insta-buddy" thing for that exact reason. I don't want to be the person to have to terminate a dive early because of my ears and ruin it for my buddy, for example. I also don't want to get assigned a buddy who is very scared or nervous in the water. I was looking at some of the resort certification programs in Hawaii as a possibility for my fiancé, and was shocked that people do the whole thing in a few days... It's a little scary.

Well you shouldn't be too worried... just proceed at a pace that you're comfortable with and never allow yourself to be pressured into diving beyond your abilities or if you don't feel good about making the dive. There's a cardinal rule in tech diving and it's "Anyone can call Any dive at Anytime for Any reason without fear of reproach". I think it's a good maxim to follow for any type of diving at any level.

If you're concerned about your own abilities or worried about your specific situation with your ears... then speak to the DM about it prior to the dive and keep them informed. Likewise, if your insta-buddy is not conformable in the water or jeopardizing your safety (due to either lack of skill or being reckless) then again, speak to the DM and let them know you're not comfortable diving with this person.

 

[OliviaRose]

Just to be clear - I do not think I am like super dive student or anything like that! If anything, I worry about my own limitations (ears) and just want to do well. I didn't mean to sound judgmental of the student who was struggling. I've struggled in other areas (grad school = brutal) and know what it's like to be trying very hard and still not able to get where you want, so I do understand.

I decided to learn to dive on my own; my fiancé is not ready yet. I have a feeling that this is what was going on in class last night, as Yoyodyne mentioned. The husband seemed happy while the wife seemed upset from the start and like she'd rather be just about anywhere else in the world!

---------- Post added April 23rd, 2015 at 11:38 AM ----------

Thanks, Nasser! I think by the time my OW dives are done, I will have a much better idea of what I can do and how to work with my ears. Perhaps it won't end up being a limitation at all. Will other not want to dive with me because I am newly certified?