Standards - can I use a drysuit without a certification

[KC_Scubabunny]

I think Walter is dead on with this one. Some people are more obsessed with having a card that says they have a specialty than true mastery of the skills of being a good diver. I hold only an AOW card. I realize that if I want to do certain types of advanced diving like wreck and cave diving that a specialty card will be required but I do not feel the need to pay PADI (or any other agency) for cards in Underwater Photography, Peek Performance Bouyancy, Boat Diving and the other fluffy specialties. As most of us know, experience, exposure and other divers are better teachers that paying $150 bucks for a card with my picture on it.

My $.02.

KC_Scubabunny

 

[MikeFerrara]

KC_Scubabunny,
I would like to see you dive. I would expect your trim and propulsion techniques to be something to admire. And all without training! Amaaazzzinnnggg. The statistics say it's a long shot. How many dives do you have in a dry suit? How did you go about making sure you were practiced at the required skills? How did you find out what those skills are? How is your reverse frog kick.

 

[KC_Scubabunny]

Mike,

I didn't say that I don't have advance training. My husband is a divemaster and my other routine buddy is an instructor. I have a lot of additional training. I just have not enrolled in classes or paid for specialty cards in order to get it. I don't think paying my LDS or PADI is an a requirement for gaining skills in diving.

To think the only way to get additional training is to enroll in classes is narrow minded. As with many things in life, formal training is one way to gain expertise in any given area.

KC_Scubabunny

 

[MSilvia]

What, there's a specialty card for reverse frog kicking now?

 

[MikeFerrara]

No but it is among the techniques we teach in the peak performance buoyancy class. Forget the card you can cut it up. The cost is much less than most people pay for airline tickets and resorts and drinks for that matter. But..if you are like the vast majority this class can help you, those diving around you and the environment. You don't need any card but I see many divers and most sure need training. These are not the people to learn from. You will learn and practice things in a dry suit class that your buddy who didn't take a class either may neglect to teach you. Most specialties, fluffy or not, are not taken because they are needed they are taken because they are fun and they can alter the learning curve in a nice way. You don't need an art class to look at art but it will help you understand it.

 

[MSilvia]

Well, I'm all for good classes, and always looking to improve. When I said there's a lot to be learned from other divers, I was really only referring to divers whose skill proficiency I admire, and not so much to those who could use some training themselves.

It's like anything else. If I was having trouble getting my grill lit properly (not that I would), I'd ask the friend who BBQs like a pro, not the friend who uses the "mushroom cloud" technique. By the same token, if I was having bouyancy and trim problems, I'd ask the friend who seemed to have effortless control, not the one doing a yo-yo impersonation. I know there's a lot of useful information and skill training in the classroom, but the value of others' knowledge and experience shouldn't be discounted.

In any case, unless your buddy is an instructor, the classroom is probably your best bet for learning what you need to know.

 

[Piscean]

In summary then, safety is the key, a C-card is unimportant to be able to dive.

What about the role model bit? Am I a good role model if I show that I can dive safely without a course by learning from books or a buddy? I wonder. If we assume that I have good judgement and I make sensible decisions about my own ability then I may be able to learn well and dive safely. However, other divers who hear about my independent learning may be tempted to try it themselves, and that is all well and good. However, that assumes that they also have good judgement. It seems to me that the place of agency based training is to define "good judgement".

Plenty of people think that they are good drivers and then kill themselves by using poor judgement drinking and driving. The law provides the standard there - don't drink and drive. Agency sanctioned training, be it GUE, PADI, BSAC or whoever, defines a standard based on the judgement of several people who have a large amount of experience just as the law is defined by people who have data to show that alcohol impairs your judgement. That must be better than me deciding for myself. Thus I put it to you that I am not being a good role model if I do not use some sort of agency to get trained. Why not - because some people do not have good enough judgement and those people are the people that need role models not the people who know what to do anyway. Do you agree?

 

[jetblast00]

Originally posted by Piscean

What about the role model bit? Am I a good role model if I show that I can dive safely without a course by learning from books or a buddy?

Well, as a DM, you have liability concers to think about... Esspecialy if you express to any diver under your care that you have udertaken tasks without "proper" training.

As a PADI DM, you have the responsibility to promote the recursive propigation of PADI classes. How can a PADI instructor tell students about the other 3 great PADI classes they should take if you haven't had them in the drysuit class in the first place...

As far as the need for training and the C-card goes, my opinion is that of many others here: not as important as knowing and having the skills...
I've seen plenty of students come out of a 2 dive drysuit class at the quarry and think that their next stop is the ocean... no way... The class and the card do not mean you know how to dive a drysuit, they are arbitrary.

What's needed? Practice. A plastic card can't give it to you, and neither can just two dives. But, neither can just a book or weeks of conversations with 'Joe Pro Drysuit Diver'...

Be smart about it, and if you want to be a good role model, just pass on the need for people to be smart for themselves, then let them figure it out. You're a DM, not their parents...

 

[Zept]

Originally posted by Piscean
What about the role model bit? Am I a good role model if I show that I can dive safely without a course by learning from books or a buddy?

What are you going to say to Joe/Josephine Diver who comes up to you and asks about dry suit diving? Specifically, what are you going to say if they say, "Do I need to do the drysuit course?" Or how about if they ask the really tricky question, "Is it okay if I sneak out for a couple of drysuit dives this weekend? I've done the confined water training, but I haven't managed to find time for the open water dives."

I'm more comfortable diving with DMs who do things by the book. It certainly annoys me if I'm buddied with a DM and they want to skip half the buddy check... they might think they're competent, but how do they know I am? At the same time, we're all human, and I know DMs don't get paid much, if anything, so I don't think I'd cast you into the inner circle of hell over the drysuit thing -- especially as you are thinking about the implications rather than bragging about how you didn't need the training. That's my take on it as a Josephine Diver-type person, FWIW.

Are you intending to finish the course?


Zept

 

[IndyScott]

I am a divemaster and have dove over 100 times in a drysuit with out a cert card. I did do a lot of reading, including padi instructor manual,to get my self ready.

I have not divemastered for instructors with it on,but I do feel it would be a higher liability if a student had trouble and wanted to sue everybody.