Standardized hand signals for numbers?

[Walter]

Stop hitting yourself.

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Stop trolling

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I imagine if a communication system that the cave community widely found to be better was introduced, they'd be open to it.

I doubt it.

But for now, why fix what ain't broke with something that doesn't bring any benefits and has the same failings?

It works well enough, as do the other systems. There's no reason to push for a standardized system and there will be lots of resistance to change.

 

[Zieg]

Paradigms shift. I imagine if a communication system that the cave community widely found to be better was introduced, they'd be open to it. But for now, why fix what ain't broke with something that doesn't bring any benefits and has the same failings?

Exactly, when the Pope or maybe one of the cardinals issues the edict:

"We have prayed long and hard and have received the devine word, and the word is good. That it is ordained that from this moment on, for eternity, or until we decide otherwise, that the holy number system shall be, to first cross thyself; you know, watch, wallet, specticals, testicles; flash the proper gang sign; then, and only then shall ye sign, the proper depiction, with thy right hand only, ye shall not use thy left hand for that hand offends me, ye shall not touch they other arm, for that offends me also. When thou hast completed the desired number, thou shall close both hands in the prayer prayer position with a long exhaled AHHHHHHHmennnnnn, while maintaining PERFECT bouyancy and orientation. For to sink or rise would be deemed a sin and punished by being subjugated to the purgatory of the 'Tank Apes'."

At which point all the true believers, shall fall to their knees, genuflect, and as one voice utter: "We are not worthy to receive such a good word, for the word is good and death to all who blasphemy and use the ASL or some other system that is not seen as holy in the eyes of our father, for it must surely be a tool of the devil 'PADI'."



The above is to be considered as funny, a joke, an attemp, no matter how febble at humor. It is NOT to be taken as serious in any shape or form. Any resemblance to characters fictional or nonfictional is purely coincidental "

 

[bart73]

We signal like this;

''time out'' signal = half of the airsupply left
and with one hand signaling either closed or open fist with all five fingers out = 50 bar
and single fingers meaning 10 bars each.

So for me if asked about airsupply and having 170 bars left i'd signal
'time out' for 150bars and then two fingers up for 150+20 = 170 bars.

If you signaled that back to me, I would think you had 120 bar.
"half of the airsupply" for me would be 100 bar. I would signal:
time out, 5, 2 for 170 bar. then it does'nt matter if your'e using 200 or 300 bar tanks.
if it reaches 50 bar, we use instead of 5, a fist.

 

[The Chairman]

I teach all of my OW and AOW students to use the cave counting technique. It's just too stinking simple, it can be done while hanging on a line in a brisk current, and it's bullet proof. If I have an insta-buddy, it takes a few seconds for me to teach it to them, and they ALWAYS seem to appreciate it. Sticking to a set of signals that were developed for use on dry land is as about as useful as putting a screen door on a submarine to keep out the sea lice!

Communicate the IMPORTANT signals before you splash. Numbers, pressure, depth, level, end dive, directions etc are all signals that I wan't my buddy to fully understand before we drop in the suds.

 

[Rick Murchison]

I learned this system as a Naval Aviator to pass numbers between airplanes in formation while keeping one hand on the stick. It was effective, and already old in aviation before being adapted to cave diving, where it works quite well also.
I find ASL numbers awkward and confusing... so I teach these.

Rick

 

[The Kraken]

Well, one thing is for certain, if the attitude of "it can't be done" prevails, then it certainly can't.

It is my belief that if we start pushing this here, we can effect change.

I, personally, believe it can be done.

Let's do it.

the K

 

[wreckless1]

We signal like this;

''time out'' signal = half of the airsupply left
and with one hand signaling either closed or open fist with all five fingers out = 50 bar
and single fingers meaning 10 bars each.

So for me if asked about airsupply and having 170 bars left i'd signal
'time out' for 150bars and then two fingers up for 150+20 = 170 bars.

I'd like the time-out signal to be standardized to mean I've reached my turn pressure or want to turn the dive. That's what I've been telling boat-buddies I'll do.

 

[BDSC]

I learned this system as a Naval Aviator to pass numbers between airplanes in formation while keeping one hand on the stick. It was effective, and already old in aviation before being adapted to cave diving, where it works quite well also.
I find ASL numbers awkward and confusing... so I teach these.

Rick

Now that I have seen this system, I think it is even better than the ASL system Walter showed in post #35. Seems very clear and I don't see how it could be confusing in any way. Thanks for sharing!

 

[miketsp]

Although I'm quite used to the one-handed cave system, the last couple of trips I did were both in national parks where DMs were obligatory. During the briefings they instructed us that if they pointed at their SPG we were to signal:
100bar or over = just give the ok signal
50 to 90 bar = fist (=50) + 1 finger for each 10 bar.
Their objective was to speed up the process as much as possible when checking on 8 divers.
If you were over 1/2 tank they didn't really care how much you had.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Walter,

How exactly would you ask "how much deco do you have" and then how would one respond "3 minutes of deco at 20' " and then sign "ascend to 20' for three minutes of deco". And please do it one handed as the other one is being used to drive your scooter, hold your camera, or is busy holding onto the anchor line. Feel free to post pictures.

I am willing to bet if we opened this challenge up to the whole board, a lot more people could do, figure it out or understand it with caves signs than in ASL with near perfect agreement on what was meant simply because it is directly relvent to diving, is not over kill and has been around the diving community for 30 years or so.

As for numbers, the ASL method is not intuitive and most people do not even count on their fingers that way. In the cave system you take the intuitive finger counting scheme and make only one modification - numbers 5-9 are horizontal. I can teach someone to do it in 30 seconds and after 5 minutes of practice they are reasonbably proficient. Absent the sudden onset of alzheimers or a stroke they will also remember it the following weekend. The same cannot be said for ASL numbers.

Regarding the rest - the "I love you" versus "airplane" versus "flying" (and we just as well add the index finger from the other hand and bring "helicopter" into the mix as well) is a good example - presentation is important in ASL and subtle differences in orientation or movement are easily missed or lost in low light, current, etc by a diver who is by neccessity focused on diving and only minimally proficient in ASL. When you consider the divers involved are also most likely under the influence of some degree of narcosis, the need for simple static signs that the diver can look at for a couple seconds to process becomes self evident.

It was suggested above that if someone introduced a better system, cave divers would accept it, That is true, but you would have to prove it too them first. For all the reasons outlined above, the ASL number system and many ASL signs woudl not make the cut. That said, I know many cave divers who use some ASL signs when they make sense, when they are easy to remember and when they are agreed upon prior to the dive. For example "Fun" works well to convey that we are just going to screw around for a while in the cavern at the end of the dive.