SSI or IANTD Nitrox?

[raxafarian]

I can see the reality of having divers of many different experience levels taking a nitrox class. You, as an instructor, don't know "how" they dive, and therefore I can see why you would want to see them dive while certifying somebody to dive nitrox.


I was leaning toward the "if they are certified, then they should already know how to dive" argument, but after further reflection, I have changed my mind.

Yes, if a diver is certified, then they SHOULD, in theory, know how to dive. They should be able to ensure they don't exceed MOD. But an instructor doesn't know this, and has to go with the lowest common denominator.... somebody who certified 6 years ago, did 4 dives in the carribbean, hasn't dove since, and suddenly decided to take up diving again, and get that cool nitrox card.

I think you guys are doing great with your training methods. Wish I could find a local shop that cared.



edit: the last statement only applies to shops where I have taken classes.

 

[Big-t-2538]

Rick L once bubbled...
So recaping what ive read about picking a IANTD or SSI nitrox cert! In a class ive allready started with no difference in the course. and is allready paid for(by my work
A: GUE
But if I dont do dives with the course im going to drown from bad buoyancy anyways
OR
I can do the dives on paper and never worry about buoyancy and
maybe get a math degree?

Rick L

I'm IANTD, and have never had an SSI course. Frankly I'd do the dives simply for the fact that if something goes wrong, and there is an instructor there, this means that there's an added layer of safety. Not to mention possibly a comfort zone for you too. It's your call, I did the dives, and it gave me confidence...maybe it will do the same for you.

 

[Scuba]

I applaud Mike for carrying on a responsible course of action from which so many others shrink.

Nitrox diving could be dangerous for those lacking some basic diving skills, as it adds another element of potential risk, and thus not suitable for everyone just because they have a C-card. Yet, some agencies and instructors require no proof of minimum diving proficiency, as is buoyancy control and depth awareness. While others simply go through the obligatory process once again, before handing out another certification to someone who would be best advised to refrain from this activity while he works on improving other core diving skills. A dereliction of duty on the part of the industry to turn out responsible qualified divers. I hate to harp on this again, but examples just keep popping up everywhere you look.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned practicing Ox-tox recognition and rescue during a dive, something which I believe GUE teaches in some of their courses, even though I don't think they have a specific Nitrox class.

 

[Rick Murchison]

AaronBBrown once bubbled...
Please explain how, in this context, the experience of diving nitrox is different from testing the knowledge of nitrox theory.

I don't think you'll find a single student of mine who would say they didn't learn anything useful from the experience dives. From the simple act of maintaining control over their tanks from the analysis at the shop to the actual dive on the boat to recording and planning with real numbers on a real boat under real conditions with real waves & wet gear and limited space and real changing sites and real gear vagaries etc, etc, etc doing it just isn't the classroom.
The benefit is substantial enough that the dives are mandatory.
Rick

 

[Rick Murchison]

roakey once bubbled...
Jumping in the water and swimming around with Nitrox on your back teaches you absolutely nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. There's no in-water skills or anything specific to Nitrox to learn. It's a complete waste of time and money.

Being able to do the formulas and correctly analyze Nitrox is another matter, but that's all above water stuff.

Roak

So, you probably think the two pool sessions and four dives I require in my advanced Nitrox course are unnecessary too, right? After all, it's all just math and a little hovering...
Rick

 

[Soggy]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

I don't think you'll find a single student of mine who would say they didn't learn anything useful from the experience dives. From the simple act of maintaining control over their tanks from the analysis at the shop to the actual dive on the boat to recording and planning with real numbers on a real boat under real conditions with real waves & wet gear and limited space and real changing sites and real gear vagaries etc, etc, etc doing it just isn't the classroom.
The benefit is substantial enough that the dives are mandatory.
Rick

You haven't mentioned anything about diving with nitrox...I didn't sign up for a bouyancy control or a boat diving course....I signed up to learn how to use EAN. How much do you charge for this? I wouldn't pay over $100 to learn to use Nitrox.

 

[Soggy]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...

So, you probably think the two pool sessions and four dives I require in my advanced Nitrox course are unnecessary too, right? After all, it's all just math and a little hovering...
Rick

When you get into decompression diving, as I'm assuming your adv nitrox course does, the risk goes up exponentially...if you can't hover at 15 ft for several minutes, the crap could really hit the fan...that is a skill that needs to be practiced.

 

[Rick Murchison]

AaronBBrown once bubbled...
You haven't mentioned anything about diving with nitrox.

Oh, you mean the wet part... I'm sorry... to me, diving starts with the idea of going, and includes all the preparatory steps along the way to the giant stride, and all the between dive stuff, and all the after dive record keeping, gear care and "lessons learned" debrief.
You're absolutely correct - there is nothing at all special about recreational Nitrox once you hit the water so long as you follow the plan and the plan is good in the first place.
I'm still requiring the dives.
Rick

 

[Soggy]

Rick Murchison once bubbled...
You're absolutely correct - there is nothing at all special about recreational Nitrox once you hit the water so long as you follow the plan and the plan is good in the first place.
I'm still requiring the dives.
Rick

Which can all be done in the classroom...my entire point. A nitrox course isn't about BOW skills...it's a very specific course about a very specific topic...none of which requires in water time to learn about.

 

[Rick Murchison]

AaronBBrown once bubbled...
Which can all be done in the classroom...my entire point. A nitrox course isn't about BOW skills...it's a very specific course about a very specific topic...none of which requires in water time to learn about.

Don't take your course from me. I'll make you dive before you get the card.
Rick