SAH
Guest
I don't think that the dives are necessary for safe nitrox diving. But I enjoyed having my first nitrox dives with an instructor's supervision. It just depends on your individual comfort level.
IMHO.
IMHO.
SSI or IANTD Nitrox?
- Thread starter Rick L
- Start date
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Please explain to me how:
1) Buoyancy control is different with a cylinder of Nitrox on your back versus air.
2) How overexertion can occur differently with Nitrox versus air.
3) How diving someones plan is different with Nitrox versus air.
Or is this a poor dive shop excuse for training people in Nitrox that DON'T have these important skills down already?
To put it differently, make no mistake about it, I consider all these skills important and as a responsible instructor I wouldn't teach someone Nitrox that didn't have these skills down already. And if they had these skills down already, there's no gain to be had by slapping a cylinder of Nitrox on their backs and making them get wet.
Roak
I agree with MikeF and Roak...
They just don't know they agree with one another.
Mike... I have no doubt that you add extra value to all your classes... and I agree with why you insist on the experience dives.
Roak... I agree that skills need to come before using aternative to air gases like nitrox and especially mixes containing helium.
And folks that is why the emphasis in a GUE class is not on the gas nor the deco proceedures... but on the skills necessary to safely implement those proceedures.
They just don't know they agree with one another.
Mike... I have no doubt that you add extra value to all your classes... and I agree with why you insist on the experience dives.
Roak... I agree that skills need to come before using aternative to air gases like nitrox and especially mixes containing helium.
And folks that is why the emphasis in a GUE class is not on the gas nor the deco proceedures... but on the skills necessary to safely implement those proceedures.
UP,
Ok, Let's say MF takes the students out for experince dives for his Nitrox class. What can he teach them with EAN36 on their backs that they can't learn with EAN21 on their backs (but doing all the planning, calculations, gas analysis etc. as if it was EAN36?)
Roak
Ok, Let's say MF takes the students out for experince dives for his Nitrox class. What can he teach them with EAN36 on their backs that they can't learn with EAN21 on their backs (but doing all the planning, calculations, gas analysis etc. as if it was EAN36?)
Roak
Roak,
I'm surprised at you. EAN 21? While air is nitrox, it is not enriched. Not a mistake I'd expect you to make. Maybe UAN 21?
I'm surprised at you. EAN 21? While air is nitrox, it is not enriched. Not a mistake I'd expect you to make. Maybe UAN 21?
Well... I agree with Uncle Pug but will answer Roak anyway.
1, Not different just alittle more important
2, Again not different but potentially more severe consequences
3, same as number 1 and 2
Roak said
"Or is this a poor dive shop excuse for training people in Nitrox that DON'T have these important skills down already?"
It's not an excuse I can't evaluate these skills if I don't get them in the water.
UP said
"And folks that is why the emphasis in a GUE class is not on the gas nor the deco proceedures... but on the skills necessary to safely implement those proceedures. "
I agree. With a good foundation in the basics a little more O2 in the mix is no big deal. In a nitrox class the focus of the class room is the gas. The focus of the dives is all aspects of the dive including remediation if required (and it often is).
1, Not different just alittle more important
2, Again not different but potentially more severe consequences
3, same as number 1 and 2
Roak said
"Or is this a poor dive shop excuse for training people in Nitrox that DON'T have these important skills down already?"
It's not an excuse I can't evaluate these skills if I don't get them in the water.
UP said
"And folks that is why the emphasis in a GUE class is not on the gas nor the deco proceedures... but on the skills necessary to safely implement those proceedures. "
I agree. With a good foundation in the basics a little more O2 in the mix is no big deal. In a nitrox class the focus of the class room is the gas. The focus of the dives is all aspects of the dive including remediation if required (and it often is).
No joke...I actually knew an instructor who taught the PADI nitrox dives with EAN21. The diver checked the mix (and found it to be 21% ), they used the appropriate tables and went diving.
Pug, you've given me a renewed respect for GUE. Thanks.
brandon
btw, I don't think you need dives for basic nitrox.
), they used the appropriate tables and went diving.Pug, you've given me a renewed respect for GUE. Thanks.
brandon
btw, I don't think you need dives for basic nitrox.
Isn't that something to do BEFORE you put them in the water with a gas they can tox on and end up dead?
Or perhaps if you do want to do an "exit evaluation" this would be an even a better reason to put them on EAN21 for their dives so if they do make a mistake they don't tox? This way if they pass their "checkout" Nitrox dives on EAN21, they get their card without having put them at risk while you evaluate their skills.
Roak
So recaping what ive read about picking a IANTD or SSI nitrox cert! In a class ive allready started with no difference in the course. and is allready paid for(by my work
A: GUE
But if I dont do dives with the course im going to drown from bad buoyancy anyways
OR
I can do the dives on paper and never worry about buoyancy and
maybe get a math degree?
Rick L
A: GUE
But if I dont do dives with the course im going to drown from bad buoyancy anyways
OR
I can do the dives on paper and never worry about buoyancy and
maybe get a math degree?
Rick L
Are you saying we should do evaluation dives before the training dives? insted of the training dives?
No we give them the nitrox but supervise the dives. This works because we are there to catch and correct mistakes. Thats what instructors do. If skills aren't adequate they don't get the card. However, in a class with no dive they take a test and then go diving with the nitrox and if they make mistakes...Oh well.
Following the same logic I think we can make a case for doing away with OW check out dives. After all we teach the skills in the pool and they take a test.
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