Suggestion Splitting the BCD Forum

[Jarrett]

The BCD section has become consumed with discussion about BP/W's. It is to the point that you can't get advice on non BP/W questions there anymore. Any request for information about non-BP/W BCDs is met with 10 responses of "you should get a BP/W."

Most of the non-BP/W users have quit posting in that forum due to the beating that they take when they mention anything but a BP/W. While the BP/W may be a great option for some, the majority of divers out there are not in BP/W setups and still need advice there as well.

My suggestion is to split this forum.

How about subsections like:

Traditional BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Backplates & Wings

That way posters interested in each could inquire and receive non combative discussions on each type of platform. I believe this would also bring more traditional BCD owners back to the forum for discussions who may otherwise be reluctant to post these days due to the current bias.

 

[Jarrett]

The longer it stays as a single forum, the less discussion you will see on non-BP/Ws. The trend is already apparent. Newbies don't want to contradict the vocal minority of BP/W supporters as they appear to be the most experienced on paper. What it will continue to become is the DIR/Tech BCD forum where those not espousing that point of view will become more and more silent. Doing nothing will only strengthen this trend and will ultimately result in less people reading the board as a whole.

How about deliniations of:

Recreational BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Technical BCDs (Backplate/Wings)

I personally don't like to see them drawn on those lines, but that seems to be where the crowd splits. And I like the no troll rule. I would never go into the DIR section and start bagging on them for not wearing a jacket BCD. The no troll would keep the popcorn loving instigators out of respective threads.

 

[cerich]

My last sentence was a reference to many advocates of BP/W feeling that in every case a BP/W is the only way to go. In fact BP/W use in single tank recreational diving has been truly an outgrowth of the DIR movement.

People go into the "creation vs. eveolution" debate with eyes wide open to the political/religous aspects. Yes, by and large posters there have done well at keeping it civil.

BCD's are used by the majority of divers, many divers don't want to use a BP/W. While some may feel that all should at least try a BP/W, it isn't going to happen. I expect BP/W use to continue to grow but personally don't expect BCD's to disappear.

It's almost painful to watch the BP/W crowd interject into every discussion of BCD's. I know they believe strongly that BP/W is the way to go and just like in your post above can make reasonable arguments for BP/W use. But sometimes it would be nice to see members able to discuss BCD's without the BP/W argument.

I can't see how having three different areas of Bouyancy Comp. would hurt

Traditional BCD's
BP/W
The BCD comapred to BP/W

 

[cerich]

The longer it stays as a single forum, the less discussion you will see on non-BP/Ws. The trend is already apparent. Newbies don't want to contradict the vocal minority of BP/W supporters as they appear to be the most experienced on paper. What it will continue to become is the DIR/Tech BCD forum where those not espousing that point of view will become more and more silent. Doing nothing will only strengthen this trend and will ultimately result in less people reading the board as a whole.

My view exactly, stated better

 

[Doc Intrepid]

It's almost painful to watch the BP/W crowd interject into every discussion of BCD's. I know they believe strongly that BP/W is the way to go and just like in your post above can make reasonable arguments for BP/W use. But sometimes it would be nice to see members able to discuss BCD's without the BP/W argument.

I cannot disagree with you. Very few if any BCD threads exist for long without BP/wings intervention.

I guess my confusion lies here:

The same can be said for debates about spare air or pony bottles.

There are no threads about pony bottles, where the OP asks about mounting to backgas or slinging, for example, that are not instantly jumped on by the "why would you ever need a pony bottle - its a crutch for the hopelessly incompetent"-crowd.

There is not a single thread where some poor newby has inquired into the relative utility of a spare air device that hasn't resulted in spare air users being subjected to dung-flingery and public mockery.

And lets not even go into anti-PADI bias on SB.....

So should we - in every case, for every debate - split each debate into separate forums so that posters can preach to their respective choirs?

Ask yourself this question: If you were a dedicated user of a Spare Air, would you come on ScubaBoard and trumpet your convictions? Would you be any more inclined to do so if you had your own Spare Air forum where such bozonity was not only encouraged but protected speech - that is, walled away safely from any informed dissent?

The purpose of a forum is to encourage discussion and - civil - debate.

I don't have any problem with debate so long as it remains civil.

Taken to it's logical extreme, the suggestion to cut the BCD forum into three separate forums, each protected against any disagreement, ultimately stifles informed, civil debate.

Because I don't want to see each and every debate on SB dissolved down into separate forums for each side, I suggest that rather than separate this forum we do a better job of shutting down (for example) "BP/wings" responses when the OP clearly was requesting advice regarding BCs. But in those cases (like the one yesterday/today) where the OP asks "which is the better option, a BC or a BP/wing?" the floor should be open to informed, civil debate.

This is merely my opinion. Pete is free to decide as he chooses. But this is the rationale behind why I feel the way I do. While I clearly see that "BP/Wing users" intrude unnecessarily in BCD threads, the same can be said for most other debates on the board. Do you advocate then that each and every one of them should suffer the same treatment?

 

[lamont]

if the mods get aggressive for awhile about moderating BP/W posts out of BCD-only threads they might be able to train the userbase to knock it off.

 

[Mafiaman]

Perspective of a first time reader

I have no bias to system, and prior to today I have never read a thread in that section.
And from my perspective most threads seem to turn to a debate of methodology. Not clear product or system discussion.

Take from that what you will, split or not does not matter to me.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Let's face it ... there is an unwillingness on some people's part to acknowledge that ...

a) some people simply prefer a traditional BCD
b) there are some pretty good traditional BCD's out there, and ...
c) the answer to every BCD question isn't, and shouldn't be, "get a BP/W

Even for someone like me ... who uses BP/W exclusively ... the responses to every question become predictable and ... in most cases ... tiresome.

I can see where people ... the majority, I might add ... who use a more traditional style BCD might get to the point where the predictable responses would inhibit their participation in that discussion.

I think any situation that inhibits discussion is ultimately bad for ScubaBoard ... and allowing a broader discussion to become dominated by a vocal minority isn't a good thing.

If someone asks about a traditional BCD, then people should respect that they want information about the product they asked for ... not to have someone else's "religion" shoved down their throat. Yet that's exactly what happens ... every time.

Even though I'm firmly in the BP/W "camp" with respect to what I choose to use, I think that for purposes of discussion, this trend is not a good thing for the community as a whole ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Jarrett]

While I clearly see that "BP/Wing users" intrude unnecessarily in BCD threads, the same can be said for most other debates on the board. Do you advocate then that each and every one of them should suffer the same treatment?

Debates or not, Scubaboard is filled with sub forums. There's one for everybody it seems. If number of total subsections is the issue management is trying to avoid, consolidation is an option. Take the Knife subsection as just a single example. There are eight threads in there total. The management could collapse that one and say Lift Bags (3 total) back into Accessories freeing up a couple of sub forums and making room larger sections like BCDs that could benefit from such a division both due to size and controversy.

 

[TSandM]

You know, we can ALL police our threads to a degree. I have started threads that have gotten off track, and I've come back on them and scolded the participants and requested that they get back on topic. Sometimes it even works.

I don't post on threads where somebody is asking about specific information on a type of BC, or help making a choice between two BCs -- UNLESS there is something in the original question that suggests that the OP ought to consider a BP/W (eg. someone asking for the best BC for a very small woman).

I agree that the BP/W contingent is fervent and vocal, but I think scolding them would control it. I agree with Doc that separating forums into purethink negates one of the biggest values in a bulletin board, which is the ability to read contrasting opinions (and hopefully the reasons for them, as well.)

 

[H2Andy]

Prime example of what I was speaking of as being "off-topic" in this thread. OP posted for ideas on a good travel BC and specifically said "Has to be jacket, not wing." The first two posts go right into the "you need a BP/W".

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=162044

they suggested a BP/W as a good travel BCD (this is true, you must admit?)

the rest of the posts on that thread discussed other types and models of BCD's

i simply don't see how respoding to a question about which BCD's travel light by saying "a bp/wings" is "off-topic," sorry

BP/Wings *ARE* BCD's

by your suggestion, the two guys who said "get a BP/Wings" would get their posts deleted or moved to another forum.

who is keeping whom from posting?

You know, we can ALL police our threads to a degree. I have started threads that have gotten off track, and I've come back on them and scolded the participants and requested that they get back on topic. Sometimes it even works.

i think this is a beautiful solution. if the poster doesn't want to hear about BP/Wings, he or she can simply say it, and contact a Moderator if things get out of hand.

the best government governs less. let's not make another rule about who can say what where, and then all the grief that will come from enforcing that policy.

let the members police themselves on this issue and call in the Mods on their own volition, case by case