Suggestion Splitting the BCD Forum

[Jarrett]

The BCD section has become consumed with discussion about BP/W's. It is to the point that you can't get advice on non BP/W questions there anymore. Any request for information about non-BP/W BCDs is met with 10 responses of "you should get a BP/W."

Most of the non-BP/W users have quit posting in that forum due to the beating that they take when they mention anything but a BP/W. While the BP/W may be a great option for some, the majority of divers out there are not in BP/W setups and still need advice there as well.

My suggestion is to split this forum.

How about subsections like:

Traditional BCDs (Jacket/Back-inflate)
Backplates & Wings

That way posters interested in each could inquire and receive non combative discussions on each type of platform. I believe this would also bring more traditional BCD owners back to the forum for discussions who may otherwise be reluctant to post these days due to the current bias.

 

[drew52]

It's probably doable, but I'm not sure I see why it's better than someone just making the request in their post.

As a new person the board they will be unaware of the potential problem. Making them aware of the problem will give them the choice.

 

[MSilvia]

As a new person the board they will be unaware of the potential problem. Making them aware of the problem will give them the choice.

I think it's most likely only a problem for the people who are sick of hearing about it, not for the new posters who, for the most part, probably don't know what a BP/W is.

Of course since I still don't clearly understand what the problem is, aside from there being a lot of posts about BP/W when compared to a disproportionately small number of posts about the much more popular BC styles, I might be off base.

 

[*Floater*]

It's probably doable, but I'm not sure I see why it's better than someone just making the request in their post.

I strongly suspect that adding the button would lead new folks to ask "What is a BP/W, and why would I not want to hear about one?", which of course would only encourage additional posts about BP/W, why those who use them think they're better, and why talking about them so threatened those who don't use them that they requested the board be modified in order to protect the membership from having to keep seeing posts about how superior their proponents believe their gear is.

I may be wrong, but wouldn't that exacerbate "the problem"?

The problem was that people were given unsolicited bp/w advice and that those who wanted to give jacket advice felt intimidated. If the warning button results in some people asking about them, then that's one thing, and not a real problem imo, but the important thing is to protect the ones who just want to know about BCD's or discuss them without having to discuss backplates and wings, and the button would take care of that issue if properly enforced by mods.

And also, if people ask why they wouldn't want to ask about backplates and wings, then others can just point them to this thread.

 

[RonFrank]

Could it be that those of us who drank the koolaide (not dir - just bp/wing) have found it to make such a difference in our diving that maybe we are just a tad overzealous in supporting that bc style.

Bottom line is if your a jacket bc diver, post about it - be as enthusiastic as bp/wing divers are

Steve

That's kinda like suggesting that Mini Van owners should be as enthusiastic as off road junkies. The very nature of a BP/W is that the diver tends to be INTO diving and /or equipment configuration. Very few come off the shelf. This requires the owner to generally understand wing configurations, BP options (Steel/Alum/STA/noSTA), webbing/Harness choices, etc.

The jacket wearing diver is likely wearing one because they find it comfortable, and it works fine for them. They are likely not that into their configuration, and they are hardly going to stand up to the typical BP/W owner who likely dives more, and has tried a lot of gear configurations.

Does that make their opinion less valid? No, but they are Definitely not going to be vocal, or argue the merits of their choice as they are just not that passionate about it in general. This does not make them less helpful.

I also was tired of hearing BP/W suggestions every time I posted a response to a Zeagle Ranger question for example. If someone posts something like, can I get smaller shoulder straps for my Zeagle, a good share of the time a response comes out like the beauty of the BP/W is that you can easily to adjust the webbing to fit anyone... Well DUH, but what has that to do with the OP.

IMO leave the forum alone, put a sticky in place reminding people to stay ON topic, and maybe beef up the ModSquad for a time removing the tired BP/W suggestions that seem to happen on EVERY BC thread.

I certainly welcome a good old Jacket Bashing, BP/W bashing, head to head rumble in the jungle. But Only if that is what the OP is asking for.

IMO Segregation is NOT the answer for most problems including BCD's!

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I think it's most likely only a problem for the people who are sick of hearing about it...

Yes... I think that this is the real problem.

Of course since I still don't clearly understand what the problem is, aside from there being a lot of posts about BP/W when compared to a disproportionately small number of posts about the much more popular BC styles, I might be off base.

Me, too.

The solution to the "problem" might be for more folks that prefer standard BCs to participate more in the BC forum. Afterall, if everyone here would post in these threads then BP/wings would fade into the background... right? :14:

 

[MSilvia]

the important thing is to protect the ones who just want to know about BCD's or discuss them without having to discuss backplates and wings

Backplate and wings are BCDs, and I don't think people in general discussions about BCDs need to be protected from them. OTOH if the discussion is specifically about, for example, a comparison of the Zeagle Ranger and DiveRite Transpac, it's quite possibly inappropriate to start raving about any other BCD, regardless of whether it's a Seaquest jacket or a BP/W.

For the most part, I think the true BP/W afficionados are pretty good about respecting that, but I have seen A LOT of threads where someone posted something like "Wow! I actually get to be the first one to say 'You should use a BP/W or you're gonna DIE!!!!!' ". I can see where this might seem funny in light of all the threads (and there are many) where (IMHO) BP/W suggestions are made appropriately and in good faith, but there are more than a few board (bored) members who enjoy stirring the pot. As I see it, deliberately inflammatory posts and posts made without consideration for the intent of the OP are the real problem, and that isn't limited to BC discussions.

I suggest we leave the structure of the board alone, and try more self-policing by using the "report post" button to let the mods know when problems start.

 

[*Floater*]

That's kinda like suggesting that Mini Van owners should be as enthusiastic as off road junkies. The very nature of a BP/W is that the diver tends to be INTO diving and /or equipment configuration. Very few come off the shelf. This requires the owner to generally understand wing configurations, BP options (Steel/Alum/STA/noSTA), webbing/Harness choices, etc.

The jacket wearing diver is likely wearing one because they find it comfortable, and it works fine for them. They are likely not that into their configuration, and they are hardly going to stand up to the typical BP/W owner who likely dives more, and has tried a lot of gear configurations.

<snip>

The problem with this analogy is that off-road junkies probably don't go around recommending off-road vehicles to people asking for suggestions for a good city car. Just because bp/w divers arguably more enthusiastic about the "sport" does not mean their advice is flawed somehow.

The main point of the bp/w is that it can be pretty much like any back-inflate bcd except usually with more inherent negative buoyancy, but if you later get into cave or tech diving then you just need to add a doubles wing to upgrade instead of a whole new BCD.

 

[Doubles]

That's kinda like suggesting that Mini Van owners should be as enthusiastic as off road junkies.

IMO leave the forum alone, put a sticky in place reminding people to stay ON topic, and maybe beef up the ModSquad for a time removing the tired BP/W suggestions that seem to happen on EVERY BC thread.

I certainly welcome a good old Jacket Bashing, BP/W bashing, head to head rumble in the jungle. But Only if that is what the OP is asking for.

Excellent response/post. Maybe I was expecting more from the jacket wearers than I should. BP/wing divers probably also dive more often which also might make them more passionate.

I also like the suggestion of a sticky - although those get ignored as well. There is no perfect solution

Hey this is my last post on this topic - I will go along with what ever decision is made

Cheers

Steve

 

[*Floater*]

I suggest we leave the structure of the board alone, and try more self-policing by using the "report post" button to let the mods know when problems start.

But sometimes it's not clear whether the OP would have wanted to hear about backplates and wings or not. Just add the check box to make it clear and the problem is solved. If the box is checked, then we can report all backplate and wing posts without ambiguity.

 

[RonFrank]

I think it's most likely only a problem for the people who are sick of hearing about it, not for the new posters who, for the most part, probably don't know what a BP/W is.

Of course since I still don't clearly understand what the problem is, aside from there being a lot of posts about BP/W when compared to a disproportionately small number of posts about the much more popular BC styles, I might be off base.

The issue is this. BP/W's have a small market share, very small based on what I've seen diving locally, for sale at the LDS, and diving at popular destination resorts. BP/W's dominate the conversation at SB. Not only do they dominate the subject lines in the BC forum, one can NOT find a post where they are not introduced in non BP/W related threads.

HERE the poster asks a Zeagle question, and specifically asks NOT to get BP/W responses. Nine responses out of 22 end up bringing up a BP/W (some in jest) but at some point the post becomes a "Advantage of BP/W" response... Hmmm.

This is just the first example I found, and not extreme. Many are much more so. One has to ask, if the BP/W market is such a small percentage of the overall BC market why are SB discussions so biased on, and focused toward the BP/W setup?

The vocal minority is the only thing I can think of, and the BP/W crowd is adamant enough to intimidate or at least discourage others from posting.