Split from: Are you AFRAID to Post?

[Trace Malinowski]

I'm sorry John. I think we are going to have to agree to agree on this one.

Some people are opposed to change for ANY reason and some of them have become instructors. No, classes aren't taught in the same manner and most of us see that as a GOOD thing. Why work harder when you can learn smarter? But, they can't handle the change, so they denigrate instead. A few people encourage their actions, while a good number of us sit idly by and let them continue to spread their half truths. It's time to take back our Board.

Well, this may or may not be applied to diving, but sometimes "smarter" may just be marketing. Like many others who take fitness seriously, I changed my programs over time to incorporate the benefits of the modern fitness science - smarter, if you will.

Two weeks ago, I went back to the basics courtesy of the Navy SEAL workout. Monday starts week three. All I'm doing is push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups and running. I've lost 4 pounds while eating hoagies, pizza, and drinking copious amounts of Coca-Cola and Monster Javas. I can be in the gym all day doing what trainers suggest and I feel "the burn" but I'm never exhausted. The other day, thanks to the Navy I was lying in a pool of sweat wishing some frogmen would put two in the chest and one in the head to put me out of my misery. Today, I improved. I kept mumbling, "Oh-my-gosh, Oh-my-gosh, Oh-my-gosh" for about 20 minutes afterward. That power of speech is nice.

Turns out all the crunches in the world and all the smarter training, can't touch sets of sit-ups. My girlfriend is on P90X and another friend just got Insanity. Poor buggers need to diet.

I'll have the pizza with extra cheese, extra pepperoni, and a large Coke, please! Sometimes harder is smarter! (Let's leave my arteries out of this.)

 

[The Chairman]

Not everyone wants to be a Navy Seal. It would not be smart for me to try to train like one "just in case" the paranoia freaks are correct. But if it works for you and your goals: go for it!

 

[Trace Malinowski]

I need some tasty waves or some Prozac after reading this thread.

It doesn't take long for a new diver just wanting to look at fish and enjoy the underwater world to become caught up in politics and prejudice during the certification process. They also soon form opinions on their own about other divers and the industry.

We've all been there. We've all just wanted to be divers and we were influenced in our alliances and prejudices from day 1. That's life. It's part of everything. In kindergarten it seemed all kids were our friends. By senior year of high school everyone had polarized into cliques. In diving the cliques may be dive boats vs. dive boats, shops vs. shops, clubs vs. clubs, public safety teams vs. public safety teams, agency ABC vs. agency XYZ, DIR vs. Strokes ...

Those who have stayed with this sport are passionate divers. Those who have stayed with teaching diving are passionate educators. When people are passionate and have years of experience underwater and in the industry they become passionate in their likes and dislikes.

Most of us who are arguing with one another all the time and doing what Pete calls the POV warrior mission are also the ones writing the most-informative posts. It is rare that you can find divers with 10, 20, 30 or 40+ years of diving experience who aren't opinionated. Listen to a group of WWII vets talk, they are old, battle-hardened and since they beat the Third Reich and the Japanese Empire they have a little swagger mixed with great humility, but they are also HIGHLY opinionated about EVERYTHING. With age and experience comes both wisdom and prejudice.

Sometimes these arguments become urine olympics. That's because guys get competitive. I'm highly competitive. Some would find me too much so. Yet, I know a guy who writes notes to himself saying, "I will not lose! Never! Ever!" and I think he needs a little decaf. Even a friend of mine who is a priest wanted to make sure that I knew he wasn't always a priest and that he slept with a lot of women before the seminary. Why was his ego more important than my soul? Because he's a guy!

When we were young, we learned so much from all the older guys around us. Maybe it was the old man at the feed store? Maybe it was our first boss? Maybe it was a teacher? To us, they were all characters and were set in their ways while we were more open to change. As dive leaders who have experience and passion and some years on us, we have become those characters. Young people are smart enough to laugh at our quirks while taking in information that can be useful.

I laugh at the old guys at the YMCA who fight with one another day after day about the same politics. They make me laugh, but since most of them bought me my freedom in WWII, they've earned the right to gripe all day. Some of us have paid our dues to the sport. We remember history that will surely be forgotten. We have seen changes for the good and changes for the bad. I think if we want to gripe about the bad, the newbies to the sport will ignore our constant arguing, and look for the gems we post.

But, hey, weeks ago the PDIC president told me that he thinks all the old guys should just leave diving and the agencies should go away and let people learn to dive like in the days before training so people could enjoy themselves and marvel at the underwater world without all the BS.

With that, I'll shut up.

 

[ScoobaDood]

I think if moderated carefully, an area for Dive Agencies to participate would be a huge asset to all. I think as long as people keep their critisizms constructive, and provide an environment that fosters good open communications, both the community and the agencies would come out on top. People who really care about the quality of training would rather discuss what they consider deficiencies rather than blanket an agency in shame as a failure to the community.

I may be wrong, but I believe that every one of these agencies would like to have a good reputation. They didn't get into this to kill divers with bad instruction, but they also know that once the instructor is trained it is difficult to keep up with each and every one of them. Perhaps PADI and others could make it a requirement that you complete an online questionaire about the quality of the training you received (and yes, worded in a manner that would extract useful data and not just rely on the students opinion) after you complete the course but before your card is issued. This would give them a glimpse into problem sites. Once a site is identified as a problem, maybe send in a "undercover student" (Ya know, like Undercover Boss) to take the training at that site and see just what is going on.

Maybe I am asking too much, maybe not, but as I said...to target an entire agency because some of the people they have trained have chosen to put money above safety and rubber stamp peoples C-Cards is too much if you ask me.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Not everyone wants to be a Navy Seal. It would not be smart for me to try to train like one "just in case" the paranoia freaks are correct. But if it works for you and your goals: go for it!

I don't want to be a Navy SEAL either, Pete.

I'm also not paranoid.

I also can't seem to get to the gym regularly lately especially when I travel.

Figured I'd try these old body weight exercises out again to see how they worked since we've heard how bad sit-ups are for the past couple of decades. There is a lot to be said for the archaic world of 5th grade gym class. I am surprised that I don't have to do combination moves or use weights to get the strength and muscle endurance results I want for general fitness.

If the SEALs were the epitome of extreme fitness they'd all be in the Olympics. I figured they were epitome of a reasonable level of general fitness.

That post was meant to make others laugh. Wow! One mention of Navy SEALs in regard to fitness and ...

 

[The Chairman]

That post was meant to make others laugh. Wow! One mention of Navy SEALs in regard to fitness and ...

Sorry. I didn't realize that discussing your post would upset you so. I don't believe that I called you any names or suggested that your training was inadequate. I merely pointed out that we all have choices and are free to pursue the choice that makes the best sense for us. My apology for whatever it was about my post that got on your nerves.

 

[gypsyjim]

The Navy Seals probably ARE in the Olympics, but if you learned which competitors they are, then they would have to kill you.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Sorry. I didn't realize that discussing your post would upset you so. I don't believe that I called you any names or suggested that your training was inadequate. I merely pointed out that we all have choices and are free to pursue the choice that makes the best sense for us. My apology for whatever it was about my post that got on your nerves.

Pete, discussing my post didn't upset me or get on my nerves. Your posting history in this thread seems ... combative? Do you need a hug? :grouphug:

Geez, I'm starting to become the Stuart Smalley of SB this week.

 

[Slamfire]

How come SDI/TDI has a good and active presence here and PADI or NAUI don't?

The way this post reads looks like we have a group of monsters here just waiting for PADI associated prey to victimize. I beg to differ. Pete, what I love about SB is that this is the real deal. There is no censorship (not to be confused with moderating for civility, legality and TOS compliance). Moderators themselves get moderated and sometimes even slapped in the wrist in public. The Chairman of the Board gets combative and postulates arguments that I do not totally agree with. But I don't have to agree with you to respect you for providing this outlet to voice our opinions so freely. That's why I got so annoyed at the Gundi Holm ordeal; I digress.

PADI does have its share of vocal defenders here in SB. PADI as an institution has an open invitation to come in officially and contribute/defend themselves. They chose not to come. Why should I shed a tear for them? I know that the extra ad income could be nice, but you said yourself you would not compromise your ethics for money, and I believe you. I see the evidence when folks like Thal and DCBC continue to freely voice their opinions, which BTW, more often than not, I tend to agree with. I guess I just qualified myself as one of their "parrots" as somebody eloquently described earlier .

Anyway, SB is a very valuable resource. Google out any question related to scuba, and there's a very good chance SB will come up in the top results. If we ask members not to voice certain opinions be assured that a good amount of their wealth of knowledge will not be shared either. Then SB will be losing something more valuable than PADI ads. I'm sure you prefer to live in a country where you can criticize Obama to your heart's delight and not in a Venezuela where it is illegal to bad mouth Chavez.

As I said before this is a free board. I do not believe that there are any SB member "mafias" conspiring towards the destruction PADI. I believe in many cases the criticism is well founded and I believe the PADI camp has a fair chance to defend themselves.

And just for the record, it is very easy to say PADI when it would be more accurate to say "many of the mainstream training agencies", because the criticism is just as applicable to a whole lot of them. PADI is just the biggest most visible one. Being the biggest also means having the most potential failure points. It's the price of fame.

 

[The Chairman]

Pete, discussing my post didn't upset me or get on my nerves. Your posting history in this thread seems ... combative? Do you need a hug? :grouphug:

Geez, I'm starting to become the Stuart Smalley of SB this week.

I re-read my post and I don't see it as being combative. There was nothing unfriendly about it at all. The response was definitely defensive, but I didn't write that.

Somehow, I think if I wrote "I like sushi" someone would take exception to it as well. I am not certain, but it seems that my stand against PADI bashing has ruffled some feathers. So be it.