Special Thanks Monastery Panel Discussion Members. Phase One is done!

[Jim Ernst]

Thanks Doc.....

I think you are doing a GREAT deed!!!

Sign looks fabulous!!!!!!!!!!

 

[micboucher]

I agree, I think this is a great thing you're doing Doc! Like it's been said by a few...even if it saves only one life, then it's worth it.

 

[dannobee]

We were getting ready to dive. I had inflated my BC and did a buddy check. I took one step off the beach and realized I was in 6 feet of water. Just as the first wave came over me I realized I was over weight. When I went to put more air into my BC I realized that something was seriously wrong. The BC would not inflate...at all.

Who taught you to dive in heavy surf like this?

If the surf is heavy, you would probably have better luck getting as heavy as you can, then walk/crawl through the surf zone and put on your fins while on the bottom once clear of the surf zone. Obviously keep the reg in your mouth at all times.

Bobbing on the surface without fins on in the surf zone isn't a good idea. Glad you and your buddy survived.

 

[Rick Inman]

I'd like to chime in here, and also thank you, Doc, and all of you involved in this project. Anytime divers take these kinds of issues into their own hands, you show government-type regulators that we are able to self correct and improve within our own community. No help needed here, we got it, thanks.... before they start shutting things down or passing random snorkel laws or something.

I have about 8 total dives at Monastery in the past few years - which is almost none. But one of those dives is on my top 5 favorite lifetime dives. I just love that site. In fact, if you go to my profile, the picture is Monastery.

I was raised as a kid swimming and diving in the CA surf. We were raised to respect, but not fear the surf, and were taught swimming and rescue skills as kids. But the thing most ingrained in me is Walk-Away Power.

On every visit to Monterey, when considering a dive at Monastery, I always look for a reason to walk away. And several times I have. Hey, changing over to a dive at Lobos isn't the worst thing that can happen to a visiting diver (thanks for loaning me the X-S, guys).

And this is what I think is the best thing about the signs. They will keep some people out of the water at Monastery in the first place. They may look at the sign, have second thoughts, and head over to Lovers or something instead.

You guys will never know how many lives you save (well, maybe you will). But the fact that you are actually doing something about it is outstanding. I am so delighted to see knowledgeable people addressing a problem rather than ignorant bureaucrats.

Good on you all!

 

[rhlee]

You guys will never know how many lives you save (well, maybe you will). But the fact that you are actually doing something about it is outstanding. I am so delighted to see knowledgeable people addressing a problem rather than ignorant bureaucrats.

Honestly, I think the most likely outcome of all of this is a beach closure/ban. If you put yourselves in the shoes of a politician, that's really the easiest move to make. "wow, I guess this beach is really dangerous. Maybe we should just close it".

Something about the squeaky tree getting the axe.

Anyway, it's something to consider. Wouldn't that be quite a legacy to leave; getting Monastery closed to diving?

 

[miskatonic]

Okey bear with me here....

So in this case would you agree that the root cause of this incident are the following items:

1. Improper gear check - If a piece of gear is taken off then it should be checked again for proper function

2. Misjudging the conditions - The conditions were not diveable (maybe or maybe no in this case)

3. Improper Technique - The conditions were diveable but wrong entry technique led to the divers getting pounded on the entry.

4. Lack of dive site information - The divers didn't know how steep the grade of the beach was underwater thus was caught unaware of the drop off

Now wouldn't you think that Doc's project could address a number of those items?

As you can see combinations of things lead to diving accidents. I forgot to put into my last post that I also ate a vegi taco the night before and it gave me gas. I was probably thinking about that when I took my first step.

I am not saying this beach in undivable but getting rolled on purpose...several times is just flat out a very bad idea. Monastery Beach is a serious force of nature and should be respected. There are other ways to produce a video using simulations that minimize the proposed risks.

I do like the sign and I do think this project has a lot of merit. I just don't see the point of getting rolled on purpose; spend 2 hours getting berries out of your gear; repeat.

 

[miskatonic]

What were all the "instructors and dive cons" doing? They are all REQUIRED (SSI, I'm assuming since you said dive con) to provide assistance / rescue...

This was all part of a normal dive. I was simply pointing out the skill levels of the people around me. (I am actually a Dive Con now simply and advanced diver when the incident happened.) There is not really any way to rescue anybody from this beach when they are caught in the surf zone without putting your own life at serious risk.

I weigh around 270lbs with full dive gear on. Dropping my weights puts me down to about 240lbs. The slope near the beach is nearly 40 degrees. When stepping in berries I sink around my calfs. So there isn't even solid ground. Unless you are a kyrptonian or named Andre the Giant you are not pulling anybody out of the surf zone by hand. The group of divers I was with did what they could but it was pretty much a self rescue.

It doesn't matter how many people are standing around for safety. They physics of Monastery beach do not lend themselves to simple rescues. Once the ocean has you it is not letting go.

 

[DocWong]

Honestly, I think the most likely outcome of all of this is a beach closure/ban. If you put yourselves in the shoes of a politician, that's really the easiest move to make. "wow, I guess this beach is really dangerous. Maybe we should just close it".

Something about the squeaky tree getting the axe.

Anyway, it's something to consider. Wouldn't that be quite a legacy to leave; getting Monastery closed to diving?

Precisely the opposite is the truth. Having many dealings with politicians in our efforts to sink a ship in Monterey, doing nothing is what can lead to closing the beach.

Let's see....beach kills people. People call and complaign to see what they are doing to stop the deaths. Politicians close the beach to stop the deaths. The "squeaks" have been reverberating thru the halls. It's in the news and people are talking about it. Those squeaks are caused by PEOPLE DIEING!

Our dive community doing something about the problem is NOT the "squeaky tree." In fact working hand in hand with those that manage the beach can only help ensure that this incredible dive site remain open for generations to enjoy.

The good news: doing the signs and supporting the video project has become a high priority and I have heard of no hints of any closure ideas.

 

[DocWong]

Well noted. I do wish you were at the Monastery Panel Discussion. That would have been a good comment/question for them. Several on the panel talked about how they have done rescues on the beach and how they pulled divers out of the surf. At least 2 of the divers there had done over 500 dives at that site. I'm sure they did so without any scuba gear on.

Actually I learned a lot about diving Monastery that night even though I've been there many times.

This was all part of a normal dive. I was simply pointing out the skill levels of the people around me. (I am actually a Dive Con now simply and advanced diver when the incident happened.) There is not really any way to rescue anybody from this beach when they are caught in the surf zone without putting your own life at serious risk.

I weigh around 270lbs with full dive gear on. Dropping my weights puts me down to about 240lbs. The slope near the beach is nearly 40 degrees. When stepping in berries I sink around my calfs. So there isn't even solid ground. Unless you are a kyrptonian or named Andre the Giant you are not pulling anybody out of the surf zone by hand. The group of divers I was with did what they could but it was pretty much a self rescue.

It doesn't matter how many people are standing around for safety. They physics of Monastery beach do not lend themselves to simple rescues. Once the ocean has you it is not letting go.

 

[rhlee]

Well Harry, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. From where I'm sitting, if a group of people come to me with tales of deaths and near misses and diagrams of how dangerous my beach is, and I'm looking at my shrinking budget, my potential liability and zero revenue (from keeping that beach open), it's a brain-dead simple: close the beach, next issue?

I find that in some aspects of life (generally where you are getting something for nothing), it's sometimes better to stay under the radar. (A prime example of this is if one is not great at one's job ) Start making too much of a footprint and the gravy train ends.

Precisely the opposite is the truth. Having many dealings with politicians in our efforts to sink a ship in Monterey, doing nothing is what can lead to closing the beach.

Let's see....beach kills people. People call and complaign to see what they are doing to stop the deaths. Politicians close the beach to stop the deaths. The "squeaks" have been reverberating thru the halls. It's in the news and people are talking about it. Those squeaks are caused by PEOPLE DIEING!

Our dive community doing something about the problem is NOT the "squeaky tree." In fact working hand in hand with those that manage the beach can only help ensure that this incredible dive site remain open for generations to enjoy.

The good news: doing the signs and supporting the video project has become a high priority and I have heard of no hints of any closure ideas.