Spearfishing

[ScubaFeenD]

We take only fish that are legal, in size and in season. Purely for personal consumtion only. Our group would never break a rule of size and creel limit. I firmly agree with Erku. Just watch one film on the effects of commercial fisherman or whalers (that I am appaled about), and the extreme waste that they produce.

I appreciate your point of view. Will it make you feel OK with yourself when species of fish and crustacean go extinct? Will you feel no responsibility at all, because some corporation was also raping the ocean?

I believe your comments (which I respect) may change. When we take a large fish, it does help the other fish in the school become the Alpha in the species, adding to the strength of the school.

If there were fish ready to take that spot, they would. Its the way that works in ecology.

I know you don't agree with me. That's OK. I'm now open to your point of view from this post and opinion. If you are a vegan, consume no fish, meat or dairy, then your point of view is clearly understandable. If you do consume these products, you need to consider your post. Fire away, blindfold is on....

Safe diving to you.

Its always good to see others points of view on a topic. It helps you see from different viewpoints, and may help refine an opinion/stance to something more appropriate and informed.

 

[Hank49]

QUOTE=smellzlikefish;5536766]

For example, when you take the largest fish in the school, it does not open up room for other fish to take its place. Instead, you have damaged the ecology of your target in two ways. First, you removed the "large, old fish" genes from the pool, effectively selecting for smaller animals that might live shorter lives. This is fishing down a population. Second, you removed the largest, most fertile fish. The way most fish reproduction works is that the largest, oldest fish send out the most gametes. By selecting and consuming the smaller fish (not trophies), you will be effecting the population less by leaving the best reproducers to continue reproducing. It is the smaller animals that have the greatest chance of being taken by predators anyway.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever tried to take the largest fish in a school....of say, cubera? or dog snapper? or Jacks? Good luck. They didn't get big being stupid. When I post pictures of fish I've taken, I'm stoked and proud. I think all spearfishermen understand this and what we did to get these fish....but most of the fish are medium at best. It's HARD to get the big ones. We don't just go out and blast with ease.
I'm no different than the sharks that patrol the reef trying to nail a fish. Except I'm not near as efficient as they are.
Almost all people that are against spearfishing seem to have the idea that it's easy to go out and kill big ones. I've yet to spear one that's even half the record size of its species. The pic is the biggest cubera I've shot. 42 lbs. A baby compared to the 130 lb potential of this fish.

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[smellzlikefish]

"Collectively, recreational fishing will not even come close to the impact of the fleets of commercial fishing 'processing plants' that sail the oceans. They throw back more "trash" fish than we can ever catch, let alone harvest. Investigate this."

There are currently about 4 million registered commercial fishing vessels. According to one study, 80% of americans went fishing in the last year. The current U.S. population stands at 310 million, making for 248 million people who took one fishing trip, or 62 times the number of commercial fishing vessels. You don't have to convince me that commercial fishing 'processing plants' are detrimental; you DO have to convince me that recreational fishers aren't. As for the trash fish, when I was fishing, the boats around me would kill any dogfish they brought up because they weren't "desired" and were stealing the fisherman's baits.

"Taking the largest fish does let the second fish in line fight for the top spot. The oldest, strongest fish in the school does eventually die, and the next in line takes it's spot. That's nature. Remember, every fish in the ocean is always consumed by other fish. That's nature too. Sorry if you don't feel this is the balance, but it is. Investigate this also."

This is simply false. If the top two fish in an area weigh 60 and 40 pounds when the largest dies, the 40 pounder might suddenly become the largest fish in the school by definition, but it doesn't magically grow to 60 pounds. There are some species where, in overcrowded situations, this will happen (ex. prawns in aquaculture) and maybe in sequential hermaphrodite/harem situations like with some wrasses, but even they don't get much bigger, they just change sex. However our oceans are not overcrowded and most species, especially gamefish species do not follow this fantasy.

I do consume meat, but what this has to do with fish stocks except in the holistic "everything is connected" way, I am unsure. My consumption of fish is limited only to those species the research says are sustainably harvested.

 

[smellzlikefish]

And Hank, I never said spearing big ones was easy. You did support my point that the biggest fish are what people are after, even though (or maybe because) they are the most prolific breeders and the largest, smartest, strongest genes and contain the highest concentrations of pollutants.

 

[Hank49]

Smellzlikefish...your name would indicate a fisherman...hah.
80% of Americans may have fished but a large % of them fished in ponds, rivers and lakes far inland.
Anyway, we'll just have to agree to go our own ways on this. I respect your views. I certainly don't want to wipe out any fishery but I DO like to eat fresh fish. And it's hard to come by here, believe it or not. The commercial guys are skimping on ice and stay out too long. Ugly fish in the markets.
Plus my wife likes Cuberas and Muttons. It's a tough job...but I do it.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Smellzlikefish...your name would indicate a fisherman...hah.
80% of Americans may have fished but a large % of them fished in ponds, rivers and lakes far inland.
Anyway, we'll just have to agree to go our own ways on this. I respect your views. I certainly don't want to wipe out any fishery but I DO like to eat fresh fish. And it's hard to come by here, believe it or not. The commercial guys are skimping on ice and stay out too long. Ugly fish in the markets.
Plus my wife likes Cuberas and Muttons. It's a touch job...but I do it.

Maybe, instead of stopping, you could look up the fisheries that are sustainable (monterey bay aquarium has a great reference list) and hunt those instead of whatever you feel like. That way everyone wins.

 

[NC Wreck Diver]

There are currently about 4 million registered commercial fishing vessels. According to one study, 80% of americans went fishing in the last year. The current U.S. population stands at 310 million, making for 248 million people who took one fishing trip, or 62 times the number of commercial fishing vessels. You don't have to convince me that commercial fishing 'processing plants' are detrimental; you DO have to convince me that recreational fishers aren't. As for the trash fish, when I was fishing, the boats around me would kill any dogfish they brought up because they weren't "desired" and were stealing the fisherman's baits.

I don't think your numbers tell the complete story. OK, there are 310 million TOTAL population in the US. That's true. And if your number of 80% of Americans are fisherman, then the 248 million represents the total amount of recreational fisherman trying to catch fish. This equation in no way compares to the 4 MILLION commercial boats in the global fleet harvesting massive amounts of fish, with quite a large amount of their catch being killed and then just tossed back into the ocean, because it is not on their desired catch list. I guess we should not even talk about finning sharks, killing dolphins to harvest tuna, and related topics. Factor down the number of people who freshwater fish, since your equation takes into consideration ALL fisherman. Commercial fishing fleets are salt water based, and I believe we are really discussing what is happening in the worlds oceans. I do freshwater flyfish, with barbless hooks. And, I have never consumed a freshwater fish personally. It's all catch and release. All of my flyfishing buddies do the same thing. Many others do this also, to conserve a vital natural resource for others to enjoy for years to come.

This is simply false. If the top two fish in an area weigh 60 and 40 pounds when the largest dies, the 40 pounder might suddenly become the largest fish in the school by definition, but it doesn't magically grow to 60 pounds. There are some species where, in overcrowded situations, this will happen (ex. prawns in aquaculture) and maybe in sequential hermaphrodite/harem situations like with some wrasses, but even they don't get much bigger, they just change sex. However our oceans are not overcrowded and most species, especially gamefish species do not follow this fantasy.

Fantasy, no, I don't believe it. When you get the 'chance' to take one of the larger fish, the second in line does move up the chain. 40 pounds to 60 pounds is quite a large jump. I think your weight comparison is a bit of a stretch.

I do consume meat, but what this has to do with fish stocks except in the holistic "everything is connected" way, I am unsure. My consumption of fish is limited only to those species the research says are sustainably harvested.

Like yourself, I eat meat and fish. As I stated in my original post, we are very selective in what we spear. Nothing illegal, nothing over the creel limit. It's true that I have seen rod and reel fisherman kill a dogfish, since they are taking the bait that they are fishing with for flounder, or similar species. These guys are idiots. You have every right to be disgusted about this process. I agree with you totally.

It's a good position to agree to disagree. If you factor in all the intelligent numbers that you posted, then factor in what conservative SPEARFISHING does to the oceans fish populations, it's a pretty small number. Thanks for the good comparison and discussion.

Safe diving to you.

 

[Zieg]

After reading the op's posts, perhaps this thread should be moved to "Whine & Cheese".

I do enjoy hearing from divers who never eat fish or any seafood complain about spearfishermen. If they are a true vegan, I actually respect them. But for the ones who complain about spearfishermen and then go out for a seafood dinner, weeeelll, how about a nice hot cup of shut the hell up! I suspect that they are cattleboat divers who are only exposed to spearfishermen who don't really have a clue and then classify all spearfishermen in the same way.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

After reading the op's posts, perhaps this thread should be moved to "Whine & Cheese".

I do enjoy hearing from divers who never eat fish or any seafood complain about spearfishermen. If they are a true vegan, I actually respect them. But for the ones who complain about spearfishermen and then go out for a seafood dinner, weeeelll, how about a nice hot cup of shut the hell up! I suspect that they are cattleboat divers who are only exposed to spearfishermen who don't really have a clue and then classify all spearfishermen in the same way.

If you are taking a fish, legal or illegal, that is unsustainable you are a part of the problem. Every fish counts when miners are declining and habitat is too. I doesn't matter if your on a cattle boat or your own boat of self superiority.

Further, the argument that only vegans have a right to feel this way is bogus. If harvested sustainably then all fish species can be hunted and consumed. You need not be vegan to be appalled at unrestricted and selfish hunting. It's the oblivious guys with a string of flounder that are ridiculous--only care for themselves, their plates , and their silly validation of manhood that they get killing a dying species.

 

[Zieg]

Check your original post again, it was a whine about spearfishing and spearfishermen.