Spear gun and pole spear as a self defense weapon?

[danvolker]

I think given what you have described here, your point of view is completely justified, and I can certainly respect that. I guess my point is that (a) most people do not have quite the experience, motivation, discipline, and skills that you have, and (b) giving you easy access to guns inevitably means giving easy access to guns to the common criminal. Whereas for someone like you, the net balance is probably overwhelmingly positive, and I have no doubt YOU can take advantage of it to make your home safer, the same is probably not the case for the overwhelming majority of the population... so, in the end, your added safety might be coming at someone else's expense.

Dont think I agree with this basic premise......If you make guns illegal, there is still the black market, and criminals will buy guns illegally...you know, the way they buy meth or crack or other illegal drugs, and the way they sell/fence the property they have stolen--using this network of illegal buying and selling.

There is no way to remove all the guns from the US, and pretty much, there is only the possibility of removing guns from law abiding citizens. Many of us do NOT and never will TRUST government....and the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS is that "tiny little last resort potential" built into the US constitution, that if all else fails, and evil corporations or power blocks take over the government, then we have the right to take up arms against this pure evil, and we are guaranteed to have the means to do so. Our forefathers had to do this before, and we may have to do this again.


Some of the anti-gun crowd have expressed a very strange opinion ... And at least one has compared the talk of shooting and killing home invasion burglers, to genocide and events characterized by Nazi Germany..... So there is a fundamental division in our beliefs going on.... Many of us here, feel an apriori knowledge type certainty, that if a burglar breaks in to our home, this act has removed all moral rights from this person, placing them on the level of a dangerous animal. I would take this viewpoint, because of moral grounds.....In a purely Kantian sense, each of us lives in this civilized society by a set of rules and has many duties to act this way or that way. When a home invasion burglary occurs, the perpetrators have elected to give up all of their responsibilities and duties within this society they are living in, and have decided to become a predator, feeding on this society---you might be well to think about this as going to war against it, as you might parallel with RAIDING groups like the Vikings, or in a maritime sense with Pirates.
If it was many hundreds of years ago, and there were Vikings breaking down your door....the only survivable choices would be either run, hide, or fight. The communities that succeeded in the time period of the Viking raids, developed protection strategies and defenses, and Vikings were killed in the Raids whenever possible.

With the pirates plying the waters in the ocean today, the only viable response is killing them. There is the prevention of them doing this another day, and there is the deterrent factor. It is, absolutely a War, on a personal level.

There are some posters in this thread, that may desire to allow a burglar to kick them like a dog, and to punch them in the face, and the only response they would consider, would be to try and kiss the hand of this attacker as the fist breaks through their teeth....and they would glory in the compassion they have shown, and the higher level of humanity they are displaying. The whole Jesus turning the other cheek nonsense.... Of course, in a Darwinian sense, this kind of behavior has a low survival value, and this kind of poster is a liability to all family ( kin ) , with kin selection becoming a negative result. This type of low survival behavior can exist best, in places where government is granted tyrannical powers, and where all personal freedoms are removed, leaving the masses as essentially indentured servants, and as unknowing slaves.

In the US, we want to fight this....in other places in the world, this is being embraced today.

 

[Wayward Son]

I had a little fun & let my smart assery out, but it is a serious topic. the OP asked about using spearguns and pole spears for self defense at home.

Can they be used? yep. for that matter, anything you can get your hands on can be used, including any weapons the intruder has, if you can get control of them.

I spear fish. i have big honking spear guns, I have a bunch of pole spears. If one of them was the closest thing at hand in time of need, yeah, I might grab one. It wouldn't be my first choice, though.

A simple burglary, maybe the goob doesn't intend any violence. Might not even be capable or willing, they just to steal the stuff that took you an irreplaceable part of your life to earn. I'd prefer they didn't get it 7 if I scare them enough to leave that's OK. Or maybe they don't want to leave & decide to fight about it. well, in that case I'd rather that I won, not them & I feel no obligation to go toe to toe with anyone who thins they have the right to make me. So if I can, I'll prolly just shoot them. People who think breaking into homes is a cool carreer path should take note of that: At some point you may well run into a resident who refuses to fight fair & you may even die as a consequence of your choices.

Then there's what we call a home invasion. This is a violent attack. One or usually more criminals choose a home to force their way into in order to have their idea of fun. This includes inflicting violence on the residents that may include rape & murder. sorry if my point of view bothers anyones sensibilities here, but why the hell should I see anyone who chooses to do that as anything less than human? I'm supposed to be so concerned for their humanity that I'm to place that before protecting my family? Hell, I've shot deer that I have more respect for than I hold for such people.

Again, anyone thinking that it's a good idea to deliver violence to people for fun, there are those of us out here who have no interest in playing your game, your way. We have our own notions of how that game should be played.

---------- Post added January 13th, 2015 at 08:23 AM ----------

You are walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children.

Suddenly a Terrorist with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges at your family...

You are carrying a Kimber 1911 cal. 45 ACP, and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your Family. What do you do?


Democrat's Answer:

• Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!

• What is a Kimber 1911 cal. 45 ACP?

• Does the man look poor or oppressed?

• Is he really a terrorist? Am I guilty of profiling?

• Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?

• Could we run away?

• What does my wife think?

• What about the kids?

• Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?

• What does the law say about this situation?

• Does the pistol have appropriate safety built into it?

• Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?

• Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?

• Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?

• If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?

• Should I call 9-1-1?

• Why is this street so deserted?

• We need to raise taxes, have paint & weed day.

• Can we make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.

• I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.

• This is all so confusing!


Republican's Answer:
BANG!


Redneck's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!


Click..... (Sounds of reloading)


BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!


Click


Daughter: 'Nice grouping, Daddy! Were those the Winchester Silver Tips or Hollow Points?!'


Son: 'Can I shoot the next one?!'


Wife: 'You ain't taking that to the Taxidermist! '

 

[victorzamora]

Dont think I agree with this basic premise......If you make guns illegal, there is still the black market, and criminals will buy guns illegally...you know, the way they buy meth or crack or other illegal drugs, and the way they sell/fence the property they have stolen--using this network of illegal buying and selling.

There is no way to remove all the guns from the US, and pretty much, there is only the possibility of removing guns from law abiding citizens. Many of us do NOT and never will TRUST government....and the RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS is that "tiny little last resort potential" built into the US constitution, that if all else fails, and evil corporations or power blocks take over the government, then we have the right to take up arms against this pure evil, and we are guaranteed to have the means to do so. Our forefathers had to do this before, and we may have to do this again.


Some of the anti-gun crowd have expressed a very strange opinion ... And at least one has compared the talk of shooting and killing home invasion burglers, to genocide and events charicterized by Nazi Germany..... So there is a fundamental division in our beliefs going on.... Many of us here, feel an apriori knowledge type certainty, that if a burglar breaks in to our home, this act has removed all moral rights from this person, placing them on the level of a dangerous animal. I would take this viewpoint, because of moral grounds.....In a purely Kantian sense, each of us lives in this civilized society by a set of rules and has many duties to act this way or that way. When a home invasion burglary occurs, the perpetrators have elected to give up all of their responsibilities and duties within this society they are living in, and have decided to become a predator, feeding on this society---you might be well to think about this as going to war against it, as you might parallel with RAIDING groups like the Vikings, or in a maritime sense with Pirates.
If it was many hundreds of years ago, and their were Vikings breaking down your door....the only survivable choices would be either run, hide, or fight. The communities that succeeded in the time period of the Viking raids, developed protection strategies and defenses, and Vikings were killed in the Raids whenever possible.

With the pirates ply the waters in the ocean today, the only viable response is killing them. There is the prevention of them doing this another day, and there is the deterrent factor. It is, absolutely a War, on a personal level.

There are some posters in this thread, that may desire to allow a burglar to kick them like a dog, and to punch them in the face, and the only response they would consider would be to try and kiss the hand of this attacker as the fist breaks through their teeth....and they would glory in the compassion they have shown, and the higher level of humanity they are displaying. Of course, in a Darwinian sense, this kind of behavior has a low survival value, and this kind of poster is a liability to all family ( kin ) , with kin selection becoming a negative result. This type of low survival behavior can exist best, in places where government is granted tyrannical powers, and where all personal freedoms are removed, leaving the masses as essentially indentured servants, and as unknowing slaves.

In the US, we want to fight this....in other places in the world, this is being embraced today.

Dangit, Dan. Stop making me agree with you. It doesn't feel natural.

I will say I believe I have a unique perspective on this. I loved in a country where guns were illegal for all but certified body guards and police officers and military personnel. Criminal ownership of firearms was rampant. When asked if they were afraid of getting caught, criminals frequently stated that there was no reason to. They outnumbered and outgunned government bodies that could try to stop them, and no citizens had guns. Truly the definition of a gangster's paradise.

 

[Storker]

Humans were on the open season for hunting list last week in France. It seems that French gun control laws were ignored by the bad guys. I imagine that the staff at the paper wished desperately they had something other than office supplies to defend themselves with.

Tasteful, really tasteful.

(stooping to the same level)
I imagine that the victims in Newtown, Blacksburg, or Littleton wished desperately that their killers didn't have so easy access to the guns they used for their killing rampages.
(OK, done with the tasteless rhetoric)

But do you really, sincerely believe that a few middle-aged guys with Saturday Night Specials tucked in their waistbands would have made much difference towards battle-trained fanatics with AKs and grenade launchers? You're not serious, are you?

I respect your view point but trying to leave some of the rhetoric on both sides behind, let's look at it from my prespective

Sure. On both sides, I can agree with that. Otherwise, see above.

You probably won't find a bigger Bambi lover then right here.

Sure I will. Right here. I love Bambi. Not so much with fava beans and a nice chianti, but rather simmered in a red wine sauce or a (classical Scandinavian) sour cream sauce with a nice burgundy. Or broiled medium rare on the grill, with a tossed salad and a good Brunello or Barolo

I am a proponent that entry level weapons training classes should focus more on de-escalation of violence vs use of weapon systems to defend ones self.

Case in point:

Police action in a country where de-escalation is emphasized during training
Police action in a country where using weapons for defense is emphasized during training. Oh, and another one

And at least one has compared the talk of shooting and killing home invasion burglers, to genocide and events characterized by Nazi Germany.

Try to work on your reading comprehension. I did no such thing. I took exception to your dehumanizing rhetoric ("If a burglar breaks in to my house, he is not a person, he is an animal,"), which factually is the same rhetoric that has been used over and over again to motivate genocide.

 

[lowviz]

Dangit, Dan. Stop making me agree with you. It doesn't feel natural.

Now that just has to go under my "Quote of the Day".

... Criminal ownership of firearms was rampant. When asked if they were afraid of getting caught, criminals frequently stated that there was no reason to. They outnumbered and outgunned government bodies that could try to stop them, and no citizens had guns. Truly the definition of a gangster's paradise.

I grew up in a small working-class town in western Pennsylvania, USA. The first day of deer season was a legal school holiday. I never knew of anyone who was ever even wounded by someone using a firearm.

I moved to a lovely neighborhood just north of Wilmington, Delaware. Guns are illegal in the city. Here is proof that it works: http://www.newsweek.com/2014/12/19/wilmington-delaware-murder-crime-290232.html

They sure as hell aren't illegal up here, a quiet middle-class, pleasant place to live...

 

[uncfnp]

Sure I will. Right here. I love Bambi. Not so much with fava beans and a nice chianti, but rather simmered in a red wine sauce or a (classical Scandinavian) sour cream sauce with a nice burgundy. Or broiled medium rare on the grill, with a tossed salad and a good Brunello or Barolo [/COLOR]

Funny. I assume you are attempting to use humor to avoid the substance of my post?

 

[letterboy]

No, he just snips and clips out bits and pieces vs responding to the whole post...

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I moved to a lovely neighborhood just north of Wilmington, Delaware. Guns are illegal in the city. Here is proof that it works: http://www.newsweek.com/2014/12/19/wilmington-delaware-murder-crime-290232.html

Good article - thanks.

 

[Z Gear]

Couple of things. I hope this is not moved to the pub since I think it has some valuable thoughts and information and that the posters can keep it civil. The thread is about home protection, not guns per se. But any discussion of home security will inevitably involve the discussion of guns.

To Storker,

I respect your view point but trying to leave some of the rhetoric on both sides behind, let's look at it from my prespective.

Look at my avatar. You probably won't find a bigger Bambi lover then right here. But I am also a realist. If there was a Utopia and I could afford to live there... But there isn't and I don't.

The reality is that violence does happen, even to good people. I have not been and do not intend to be a victim. I take responsibility for myself. If my world did not have guns, then yes I probably would not arm myself either. But guns exist and I act accordingly and responsibly.

Thanks for trying to be civil about all this, I am tempted to have a moderator step in and force some control here. We should be able to have a level of self control (respect toward each others view) and not ignor the importance of that. I tried to explain to Storker the previous message he sent to me when I tried to vent out. I took it personally but after reflecting on his advice I reconsidered and I could see that he was right.

I guess he is not choosing to see this point I am making. We all have our own choices, I'm glad you chose a better more honorable approach. I have to give you credit for trying to calm things down a bit.

Frank G
www.zgearinc.com

 

[Water Boy76]

This thread is out of control. The original question posted by the OP was silly to begin with. This has nothing to do with underwater hunting anymore and never really did in the first place.

Lets let this thread die.