Spear gun and pole spear as a self defense weapon?

[dmoore19]

You can "what if" anything to death, as is what your are doing here. The truth is in a home invasion robbery the perpetrator probably doesn't know you have a firearm. If armed you still have the advantage, it is after all your home turf. If someone wants to murder my family I would rather have a shot at protecting them than waiting for someone to arrive after I have called for help. Your government can't protect you at all times, and neither can the 911 operator.

What would you do? show em the phone and warn them you have a 911 operator on the line and you're not afraid to use it?

You are entitled to so whatever it is you find acceptable, cool thing is.......so am I.

Maybe I can help.... if someone wanted to come to your house and murder your family, and they expected you to have a gun, surely they would just bring more men, and a bigger gun, no? Does that not put you back just where you started? The most bad ass "gun" that you can wield is the ability to not make yourself a target, and have a reliable way to call for help...



That sounds like a pretty solid plan to me... why bother with a gun? The street thugs are better at handling a gun than you will ever be, and yours may just come handy if for some reason they forget to bring their own.

Wow, I can see that you have watched a lot of movies, sorry to break it to you but real life ain't like the movies.

 

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Maybe I can help.... if someone wanted to come to your house and murder your family, and they expected you to have a gun, surely they would just bring more men, and a bigger gun, no? Does that not put you back just where you started? The most bad ass "gun" that you can wield is the ability to not make yourself a target, and have a reliable way to call for help...



That sounds like a pretty solid plan to me... why bother with a gun? The street thugs are better at handling a gun than you will ever be, and yours may just come handy if for some reason they forget to bring their own.

Since we are in a helping mood....

Most criminals go after the easy targets like the typical schoolyard bully. A loaded gun changes the dynamic in an instant before they can react. Ideally they don't know you have it until its too late. Is a locked door and a call to 911 prudent, absolutely. Its called a layered defense, the gun is the last layer (or close to it). The locked door, outside lights are the first layer. The 911 call is a reaction that may or may not bring help in time. A parallel would be teaching first aid. The treatment you render to a victim is not meant to replace medical personal but to supplement by providing time critical steps before proper help arrives. Sometimes first aid is hopeless, sometimes its all you need and sometimes its the difference between life and death. I would argue its worth trying regardless of the outcome.

As for street thugs handling a gun. Get real, most learn from watching TV shows or the movies. Can they shoot someone standing still at close range, of course. Hitting moving targets that are taking cover and firing back is a different story. Now you are down to which person has the most skill. Criminal are not known for having the discipline to properly train and practice. Most people I know with a CCP at least hit the range on a regular basis if not formal classes or competition. I think the odds are stacked against the thug, my opinion.

 

[kr2y5]

I admit I may not have a lot of experience with street thugs, and what you all say may very well be true, but I would think that the kind of thug that lacks self-discipline to learn to shoot is probably not coming to take turns to rape and murder your family... more likely, they are just a punk who wants your wallet. I would just give them the damned wallet, they will get caught anyway. With an unstable individual like this who lacks impulse control, my first instinct would be to rather try to calm the situation down than be a hero. Pulling out a gun sounds like a sure way to raise the stakes high, bring things to a tipping point and make it very likely that someone gets hurt. Of course, you can argue that the stakes are very much in your favor, and you may very well be right, but regardless of what happens to the criminal, YOU are still more likely to get hurt in a shoot-out, so why take the risk... but ok, I have not been robbed at my home yet, so I will shut up now... carry on

---------- Post added January 12th, 2015 at 11:50 PM ----------

Wow, I can see that you have watched a lot of movies, sorry to break it to you but real life ain't like the movies.

I would be curious to learn from your experiences... do share...

 

[Dirty-Dog]

I admit I may not have a lot of experience with street thugs, and what you all say may very well be true, but I would think that the kind of thug that lacks self-discipline to learn to shoot is probably not coming to take turns to rape and murder your family... more likely, they are just a punk who wants your wallet.

History says you're wrong. Crimes of violence do not require self-discipline. Quite the opposite.

I would just give them the damned wallet, they will get caught anyway.

In what world? Do you have any idea what percentage of crimes are actually solved (in the real world, not Hollywood)?

At the age of 17, I was mugged by a man with a knife. I gave the bad guy my wallet because (like you) I'd been taught to be a victim. He attacked anyway and I lost an eye. Feel free to be a victim. Personally, I don't have any more spare parts. If there is a threat to me or my family, or even a random person in the street, I will do my best to ensure that the only person harmed will be the bad guy. Obviously, if less than lethal options are available, then hurray. If not, better a dead bad guy than one of my grandkids.

With an unstable individual like this who lacks impulse control, my first instinct would be to rather try to calm the situation down than be a hero. Pulling out a gun sounds like a sure way to raise the stakes high, bring things to a tipping point and make it very likely that someone gets hurt.

Completely untrue. Most gun owners will never use their gun except at the range. Of those who do draw a weapon in defense, the presence of the weapon is enough to end the assault without a shot being fired in something like 75% of cases.
Thugs don't want a gun fight. They want easy victims. People like you.

Of course, you can argue that the stakes are very much in your favor, and you may very well be right, but regardless of what happens to the criminal, YOU are still more likely to get hurt in a shoot-out,

How on earth do you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[Z Gear]

worked for bond, james bond:

[video=youtube;bvrtx1qvqjg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvrtx1qvqjg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

excellent!!!! That's what I'm talking about!

 

[dmoore19]

Why do you ask? You would just find it stupid and find some way to rationalize your point of view.

Have you ever fired a firearm? Have you ever killed a deer or an elk? Have you ever been to the range or even out plinking? Have you ever actually tried firing a pistol while moving? Have you ever fired a pistol at a moving target? I can assure you that it isn't easy, even if you are trained and practice, let alone some of the BS gun handling you see in movies. Try it sometime, you'll see what I mean. I have taken 3 pistol classes and so has my wife. Even if you are trained without constant practice it is likely you can't hit sh!t while moving or ducking to keep from getting shot.


Have you ever had some dipstick point a gun at you with intent to do you harm? I have and your best defense is to get the hell out of the way and hope the dumbass doesn't get lucky. Sure you can give them your wallet and throw all your money into a bag and give it them but that doesn't mean they aren't going to shoot you anyway even if 911 is on the line.

Again, I offer you the fact that you are free to use your method of protection, and I will use mine. Good luck. Remember, it is also important to know the laws in your state. They vary greatly. You might look up the term castle doctrine, your state may or may not give you the right to protect yourself during a home invasion. Mine does.

I admit I may not have a lot of experience with street thugs, and what you all say may very well be true, but I would think that the kind of thug that lacks self-discipline to learn to shoot is probably not coming to take turns to rape and murder your family... more likely, they are just a punk who wants your wallet. I would just give them the damned wallet, they will get caught anyway. With an unstable individual like this who lacks impulse control, my first instinct would be to rather try to calm the situation down than be a hero. Pulling out a gun sounds like a sure way to raise the stakes high, bring things to a tipping point and make it very likely that someone gets hurt. Of course, you can argue that the stakes are very much in your favor, and you may very well be right, but regardless of what happens to the criminal, YOU are still more likely to get hurt in a shoot-out, so why take the risk... but ok, I have not been robbed at my home yet, so I will shut up now... carry on

---------- Post added January 12th, 2015 at 11:50 PM ----------



I would be curious to learn from your experiences... do share...

 

[Z Gear]

History says you're wrong. Crimes of violence do not require self-discipline. Quite the opposite.



In what world? Do you have any idea what percentage of crimes are actually solved (in the real world, not Hollywood)?

At the age of 17, I was mugged by a man with a knife. I gave the bad guy my wallet because (like you) I'd been taught to be a victim. He attacked anyway and I lost an eye. Feel free to be a victim. Personally, I don't have any more spare parts. If there is a threat to me or my family, or even a random person in the street, I will do my best to ensure that the only person harmed will be the bad guy. Obviously, if less than lethal options are available, then hurray. If not, better a dead bad guy than one of my grandkids.



Completely untrue. Most gun owners will never use their gun except at the range. Of those who do draw a weapon in defense, the presence of the weapon is enough to end the assault without a shot being fired in something like 75% of cases.
Thugs don't want a gun fight. They want easy victims. People like you.



How on earth do you arrive at this conclusion?

Your testimony of what happen to you when you were seventeen is very powerful. It is hard to imagine for some that this could happen but its sadly true.
That is why we must respect the views of some who are sharing their thoughts and not jump to conclusions because they might discover some have an undeniable and respectfully justified reason for having or carrying a gun.

 

[kr2y5]

I think given what you have described here, your point of view is completely justified, and I can certainly respect that. I guess my point is that (a) most people do not have quite the experience, motivation, discipline, and skills that you have, and (b) giving you easy access to guns inevitably means giving easy access to guns to the common criminal. Whereas for someone like you, the net balance is probably overwhelmingly positive, and I have no doubt YOU can take advantage of it to make your home safer, the same is probably not the case for the overwhelming majority of the population... so, in the end, your added safety might be coming at someone else's expense.

 

[Storker]

the anti-gun religion....the arguments are against the anti-gun religion itself.

We're not anti-gun. We're just anti-dehumanizing-propaganda, anti-killing-people-over-mere-things and anti-getting-a-hardon-over-fantasizing-about-violence.

But I guess some people might hav problems spotting the difference.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

---------- Post added January 13th, 2015 at 07:01 AM ----------

Just how would someone of your ideals deal with a doped up invader in your home set on killing you and raping and murdering your family?

If it happened on a regular enough basis to be a real concern, I move to another neighborhood.

If it didn't, the risk was way down there in the range of being struck by lightning, and I still worried about it, I'd get some psychiatric counseling to cope with irrational fears.


--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

 

[Z Gear]

Two short points:

1: I'm at least a 'liberal' by your standards, and let me tell you: You. don't. know. SH!T!!! about. my. childhood. Capeesh?
2: That's extremely provoking, but I guess you're just true to type, right? Or are you really that clueless?




--
Sent from my Android phone
Typos are a feature, not a bug

Greetings Storker, you once gave some advice on an earlier post about not taking things to personal, on this board. At first I didn't like it, because I felt like venting. But I have to tell you, that was actually good advice. Your message stuck in my head ,and I try and remember that every time I get the urge to lose it a little. It's Ok, I realize this topic has gone a little of course and some things are misconstrued. But the important thing to remember, is that we are all divers, and we do share a lot in common, we all love the ocean.

Which brings me to this conclusion and I hope most of you can please read this!

Now that we have slipped into this slippery slope of topics, I must inform everyone that I am not comfortable leaving a thread that can possibly cause excessive division. I feel it is my responsibility to ask those that can help, to join me in restoring some tranquility and solidarity as divers.

We can agree to disagree.
We can have different points of view but lets try and respect each other. Let us not forget the one thing that brings us together.

DIVING

Frank G
www.zgearinc.com