Spare Air: some thoughts

[Tanked]

I'd say that it is a good skill to have in most cases for non-ceiling dives.

This was your earlier reply to a comment about being able to get to the surface while "holding your breath"

You can "hold" your breath (as in not breathe) yet keep the airway open so that you will bent excess air on ascent.

You clarified what you meant with this statment

I think "holding your breath" is a poor choice of words for what you are describing, Thal, but I'll stop nitpicking. I agree that CESA is a valuable skill.

Obviously I wasn't the only one who misinterpreted what you meant

Not a procedure that I'd recommend, but it is a free country. Granted, the language is imprecise, but it would appear to me that you are being intentionally foolish and trolling on something that we all know the better of.

I was not being foolish, I simply misunderstood what you were tyring to say.
I've been a member of Scubaboard for years, and have never been a troll

 

[Paladin]

I was taught how to do an emergency ascent from 90 ft. It really isn't that difficult if you just keep your head. That said, I would think that, using a Spare Air, one should be able to do a series of "emergency ascents" and thus extend the air supply contained in the unit. By that I mean take a breath, exhale slowly as you ascend, take another breath and exhale slowly, etc. In other words, instead of using the SA as you would a bigger pony, use it to augment your emergency ascent procedure.

This is just a thought, as I have never owned or used a spare air or even a pony.

 

[idocsteve]

You can "hold" your breath (as in not breathe) yet keep the airway open so that you will bent excess air on ascent.

This is absurd.

Divers reading the post I quoted above, I urge you to please, please disregard the words that have been written there, they are in direct opposition to the cardinal number ONE rule of scuba diving.

Never EVER hold your breath!

 

[idocsteve]

I was taught how to do an emergency ascent from 90 ft. It really isn't that difficult if you just keep your head. That said, I would think that, using a Spare Air, one should be able to do a series of "emergency ascents" and thus extend the air supply contained in the unit. By that I mean take a breath, exhale slowly as you ascend, take another breath and exhale slowly, etc. In other words, instead of using the SA as you would a bigger pony, use it to augment your emergency ascent procedure.

This is just a thought, as I have never owned or used a spare air or even a pony.

Exactly. Which is why a Spare Air is better than no air.

If a diver can hypothetically make an emergency ascent (admittedly an unsafe last ditch emergency procedure) with NO air, from a depth of up to 100 feet, then they can give themselves an additional margin for safety by carrying a cylinder that can provide them up to 30 breaths.

 

[Blackwood]

This is absurd.

Divers reading the post I quoted above, I urge you to please, please disregard the words that have been written there, they are in direct opposition to the cardinal number ONE rule of scuba diving.

Never EVER hold your breath!

If a rule in scuba diving exists due to the inability of (some) dive educators to teach a technique, is it really cardinal?

 

[elan]

This is absurd.

Divers reading the post I quoted above, I urge you to please, please disregard the words that have been written there, they are in direct opposition to the cardinal number ONE rule of scuba diving.

Never EVER hold your breath!

It`s not absurd. There is a difference between holding a breath and not-breathing having the airway open. You can be not breathing and still not holding the breath.

Constant breathing ensures that the breath is not held. This is why they made this rule number one. Just to simplify it and make it safer for beginners.

I see no point of constantly breathing when I do not need to... especially staying on the same depth. If you constantly breath you will be either going through your air quickly or breathing shallow or swimmining like yoyo

 

[sdiver68]

Interesting "Lessons for Life" makes a case for spare air:

Seaduction - Diver Down: Choking on It

 

[Chris12day]

Lately, the flame-festival de jour has been the Spare Air vs Pony vs true redundancy debate. Just the mention of Spare Air in a thread title has been enough to evoke a ghoulish spectator response, making one peer within the thread, because they seem to inevitably degenerate to name calling and insults.

Usually, these two quotes (although baldly put) seem to polarize the two camps:







Something that’s been lacking is some understanding... understanding of what generated these thoughts in the first place.



The Spare-Air dismissers

It’s a generalization, but the majority of posters I’ve seen in this camp are generally very experienced. They have extensive, precise training, and routinely dive well beyond the No Decompression Limits, or, under a hard overhead barrier.

These divers have experienced the visceral enormity of what overhead-restricted means. There is nothing like your first deco dive, and arriving at your 10’ stop (usually cold and tired); and while looking at the surface, realizing the sudden finality of how you can NOT go there without grave peril. Such a short distance – but, forbidden, and 10 minutes away. This first experience is forever life (and viewpoint) altering. Mine was 30 years ago, and I remember it as if it was yesterday.

Even the most experienced, 20-year worldwide recreational diver cannot understand this shattering change in viewpoint. They may understand it intellectually – but not in their gut. This is truly something that has to be experienced before it is understood.

Thus, these divers think in terms of true redundancy. If a procedure will not give them a 100% chance of waiting out that 10’ stop, then it isn’t worthy of use. Commonly heard is “Two is one, and one is none”. The thought of relying on “thirty breaths” in the overhead environment is ludicrous, and that forever-hardwired thought process spills over into the forum discussions.




The Spare-Air supporters

Again, it’s a generalization, but the majority of posters in this camp either have extensive recreational experience, or, are very low time in the sport.

The ones who are very low time have been let down by the educational process in diving today. Air shares and emergencies are, for the most part, covered and drilled just enough to pass the final (all too soon) skills exam. These skills haven’t been drilled and covered until they are second nature. Plus, they do not have the finely-honed buddy awareness that would support resolution of an emergency. Thus the low-time diver has no innate confidence that the air-share will really work, and they want something that gives them a warm fuzzy. Thirty breaths is better than none, and so they look to the Spare Air.

The experienced recreational diver is the exact opposite. They have the time in the water to be calm and handle practically any issue. To these seasoned divers, thirty breaths is more than enough to resolve a problem and make it to the surface in a leisurely way. Given the questionable skills of an insta-buddy, and small size of a Spare Air, it is for them a compact answer for self dependency.





The Spare Air is a tool. Every tool has advantages and disadvantages. There are situations that I would consider one myself, and many where I would not, but my decision would be made on my needs.


All the best, James

James,

Thank you for the clarification on the various positions from various posters.

I have read the entire thread....to answer many of the questions....WHY DOES THIS THREAD OCCUR SO OFTEN?

On the Basic Scuba threads, divers are not familiar with the difference between a "spare air" and a pony system. From my previous thread, I now know the differences between the two systems. I also now know (from this thread) why the polarity between the two camps. I believe that both camps have their points.

I have made my personal choice, a 19cf pony. It was my informed choice.

Chris

 

[idocsteve]

It`s not absurd. There is a difference between holding a breath and not-breathing having the airway open. You can be not breathing and still not holding the breath.

Yes there's a difference between not breathing and having the airway open versus holding your breath.

That's why one procedure is called "not breathing while having the airway open" and the other is called "holding your breath". If your airway is open, but you are not preventing the outward flow of air from your lungs, then you are not holding your breath, you are simply "not breathing".

 

[elan]

Well I believe this is why he put the word hold in the quotes.