Southern Belize Needs Your Help!

[Ralph Capeling]

"To balance the cry, Government said to NCL you must bring twenty-five percent of your tourists ashore to visit sites up to the maximum carrying capacity of the sites."

How can a cruise ship guarantee 25% of its passengers will opt to spend time on the mainland?

Tour Operators that cater to over night tourism try to avoid destinations that cruise tourist go to on the days cruise ships are in port because they are over crowded resulting in a less appealing experience. If we have guests that want to go to one of the destinations that cruise tourist go to, we check to see which days cruise ships are in port and try to schedule around that or suggest alternate destinations. From a overnight tour operator point of view, it would be preferable if they had less than 25% spending time on the mainland. An extra 1000 people or so is a lot for this area. Even if they go to 10 different destinations, that would mean 100 people or more at each destination and it is rare to see more than a couple of dozen at the various attractions at one time in this area.

Regards
Ralph

 

[Downing]

A few years ago, my wife and I spent a few nights in Belize City (no, really we did) so we could check out some mainland sights before going to Turneffe Island Resort. I hired a tour guide to show us around, and in discussing our itinerary he suggested we hold off on cave tubing until the afternoon to avoid the cruise ship crowd. So we spent the morning checking out the Community Baboon Sanctuary then headed for the cave tubing.

They were leaving just as we were arriving. I was stunned at how many busloads of people we passed going in. That turned out to be some excellent advice as a crowd that big would have had a definite impact on our experience had we been there at the same time.

I can't imagine that many buses cruising up and down the road of Placencia. Not the roads, mind you. The road.

Btw, not a single cruise ship passenger was at the Sanctuary. Just not their thing, I guess.

 

[flots am]

How can they guarantee those passengers will opt to spend any money on the mainland?

Besides a trinket or maybe a popsicle before they head back to Fantasy Island.

Oddly enough, the passengers will spend money on things they like. There is no guarantee that they'll buy trinkets made in China just because they're for sale in Belize.

I've been on cruises to Belize maybe a dozen times and never set foot on land, except once, for the crappy "tourist village" or whatever the port-thing is called. The ship stops in the harbor, the dive boat comes by and pick up divers and we go diving.

I can't tell you who gets money from that, but I can tell you it's about $200/diver not including tips. If "the right people" aren't getting paid, it's because they haven't negotiated the right contract terms.

Maybe some of you would be happier if I visited the baboon sanctuary instead, but I'm pretty sure it's not $200/person.

 

[Hank49]

A
I can't imagine that many buses cruising up and down the road of Placencia. Not the roads, mind you. The road..

That's the nicest road in the country.

 

[AWMIII]

If you are paying $200 per person for a 2 tank dive out of Belize City, then the cruise line is getting $100. I have spent some time in Alaska and have a friend who owns a business in Juneau. What happens is that the Cruise companies squeeze and squeeze while making their own outrageous cut off the tours. Gradually, the operators go out of business because the land based tourists stop coming and they cannot make money after the cruise companies take their cut. The next phase which began years ago in Alaska is that the lines buy the local operators and full control pricing ect. Then NO locally owned business survives.

Here is the math on Belize City scuba trips. Regular rate is $123.50 for a 2 tank dive. It is expensive because gas is expensive and it is a long way to the reef from Belize City. You can be sure that NCL and the others are paying at most $100 for the same trip. Then they are marking it up to their passengers to $200. They make $100 for selling the trip. The operator probably nets about $40 at the rack rate. at $100 they net $16. That's fine and dandy as long as the cruise ships keep coming and they do not decide to squeeze them further. What has happened in Alaska is that they have squeezed them more. Why? Because they can. They have HUGE leverage. The cruise industry has literally killed whole towns in Alaska. The local economy becomes so cruise centric that there is nothing else. The town of Skagway sees up to 12,000 passengers A DAY! The year round population is 800. On a nice Friday night in the summer at 8pm it is hard to find anything open. WE could not even find an icecream cone. Most of the stores are actually owned by the cruise lines. Princess Diamonds ect... What land based tourist would visit a place where everything is closed in the evening? I visited in an RV.

2 weeks ago, I was in Philipsburg ST Maarten. The first day there were no ships. Half the town was shuttered. It was like being at Downtown Disney when everything is closed. The next day 1 ship was in port. All of the stores were opened. What do you think we found? Princess Diamonds, Diamonds International, Tacky wannabe Jewlery, and a chain called Shipwreck Shops which sold souvenirs. Shipwreck Shops were on every corner selling the same stuff. Meanwhile in back alleys, locals struggled to get anyone to look into their shop. They could not compete and will be squeezed out by the chain stores selling bling and offensive tee shirts.


Those of us that love Belize love it because it is NOT Downtown Disney. If I want that, I'll go there. Most of the business owners will not be able to negotiate good contracts. I have seen what happens in other places. When I visited Placencia, it had only one paved road and that "road" was a narrow concrete sidewalk. People go there for the simple way of life. It is refreshing. It is a slippery slope when improvements start to support thousands of "Morris"es (we will see who get the reference) that want things like AC, Diamonds International, and dust free streets. There will be no going back.

 

[flots am]

If you are paying $200 per person for a 2 tank dive out of Belize City, then the cruise line is getting $100. I have spent some time in Alaska and have a friend who owns a business in Juneau. What happens is that the Cruise companies squeeze and squeeze while making their own outrageous cut off the tours. Gradually, the operators go out of business because the land based tourists stop coming and they cannot make money after the cruise companies take their cut. The next phase which began years ago in Alaska is that the lines buy the local operators and full control pricing ect. Then NO locally owned business survives.

It's not The Mafia. Any vendor can say "no".

I'd have been happy to pick up a dive boat on shore and paid them even more than their standard rate, but after emailing every dive op within a reasonable distance of the port, and receiving no replies, or negative replies, figured "why bother?"

It's not my fault or the cruise line's fault that nobody wants the business enough to bother with it. A local dive op that can't compete against a $200 2-tank dive doesn't get much sympathy from me.

2 weeks ago, I was in Philipsburg ST Maarten. The first day there were no ships. Half the town was shuttered. It was like being at Downtown Disney when everything is closed. The next day 1 ship was in port. All of the stores were opened. What do you think we found? Princess Diamonds, Diamonds International, Tacky wannabe Jewlery, and a chain called Shipwreck Shops which sold souvenirs. Shipwreck Shops were on every corner selling the same stuff. Meanwhile in back alleys, locals struggled to get anyone to look into their shop. They could not compete and will be squeezed out by the chain stores selling bling and offensive tee shirts.

They could try selling stuff people like.

"Cruise ship passengers" aren't some weird species of alien. They're just people. If the shops aren't getting business it's because they're not selling what people want, are too expensive or too hard to find. These aren't unique problems.

Those of us that love Belize love it because it is NOT Downtown Disney. If I want that, I'll go there. Most of the business owners will not be able to negotiate good contracts. I have seen what happens in other places. When I visited Placencia, it had only one paved road and that "road" was a narrow concrete sidewalk. People go there for the simple way of life. It is refreshing. It is a slippery slope when improvements start to support thousands of "Morris"es (we will see who get the reference) that want things like AC, Diamonds International, and dust free streets. There will be no going back.

That's fine too.

If the people want "no business", it's easy enough to acheive. However that comes at the cost of "no money" for various desired improvements.

flots.

 

[Mike]

If you are paying $200 per person for a 2 tank dive out of Belize City, then the cruise line is getting $100. I have spent some time in Alaska and have a friend who owns a business in Juneau. What happens is that the Cruise companies squeeze and squeeze while making their own outrageous cut off the tours. Gradually, the operators go out of business because the land based tourists stop coming and they cannot make money after the cruise companies take their cut. The next phase which began years ago in Alaska is that the lines buy the local operators and full control pricing ect. Then NO locally owned business survives.

Here is the math on Belize City scuba trips. Regular rate is $123.50 for a 2 tank dive. It is expensive because gas is expensive and it is a long way to the reef from Belize City. You can be sure that NCL and the others are paying at most $100 for the same trip. Then they are marking it up to their passengers to $200. They make $100 for selling the trip. The operator probably nets about $40 at the rack rate. at $100 they net $16. That's fine and dandy as long as the cruise ships keep coming and they do not decide to squeeze them further. What has happened in Alaska is that they have squeezed them more. Why? Because they can. They have HUGE leverage. The cruise industry has literally killed whole towns in Alaska. The local economy becomes so cruise centric that there is nothing else. The town of Skagway sees up to 12,000 passengers A DAY! The year round population is 800. On a nice Friday night in the summer at 8pm it is hard to find anything open. WE could not even find an icecream cone. Most of the stores are actually owned by the cruise lines. Princess Diamonds ect... What land based tourist would visit a place where everything is closed in the evening? I visited in an RV.

2 weeks ago, I was in Philipsburg ST Maarten. The first day there were no ships. Half the town was shuttered. It was like being at Downtown Disney when everything is closed. The next day 1 ship was in port. All of the stores were opened. What do you think we found? Princess Diamonds, Diamonds International, Tacky wannabe Jewlery, and a chain called Shipwreck Shops which sold souvenirs. Shipwreck Shops were on every corner selling the same stuff. Meanwhile in back alleys, locals struggled to get anyone to look into their shop. They could not compete and will be squeezed out by the chain stores selling bling and offensive tee shirts.


Those of us that love Belize love it because it is NOT Downtown Disney. If I want that, I'll go there. Most of the business owners will not be able to negotiate good contracts. I have seen what happens in other places. When I visited Placencia, it had only one paved road and that "road" was a narrow concrete sidewalk. People go there for the simple way of life. It is refreshing. It is a slippery slope when improvements start to support thousands of "Morris"es (we will see who get the reference) that want things like AC, Diamonds International, and dust free streets. There will be no going back.

Very relevant information.

Cozumel demonstrated the double edge sword of what can happen when you rely on one source of your income. In 2009 when the swine flu hit them and all cruise ships stopped going to Cozumel for 30 days the island was devastated, there were stories of how business owners were buying food for their employees just to help them survive. It's like any small town that rely on one industry or business for employment, no different than when steel mills closed in Pennsylvania, or a lumber mill in Washington or a high-tech industry moved out of a small town in Indiana, the local economy grows with the introduction of the new economic opportunity and rely too much on it for survival, like a heroin addict, once hooked, the withdraws can be devastating. It's up to the local government to have vision if they make a deal with the cruise ships, they need to use the new income and taxes to diversify and grow the rest of their local economy so that the cruise ships can't grow too powerful in their local economy and become the number one employer or provider of income. The cruise ship deal should be looked at as an opportunity to a rung on the bottom of the ladder on a journey to the top, not as the final prize.

 

[Downing]

"Cruise ship passengers" aren't some weird species of alien.

True, but I'm beginning to think that as a whole they don't give a sh*t about the countries they're visiting.

Hank, maybe we should send the cruise ship crowds to your shrimp farm for a tour. That'll teach 'em what a typical road in Belize looks like, lol.

 

[flots am]

True, but I'm beginning to think that as a whole they don't give a sh*t about the countries they're visiting.

These people are on vacation. They want to relax and have fun and really don't really care about the country's internal problems, and they shouldn't have to.

Even when I fly places and stay for a week or two, I still really don't care all that much. Bonaire's petty crime problem isn't my problem. It wasn't my problem when I was there for 12 hours on a cruise ship, and it still wasn't my problem when I stayed at Buddy dive for a few weeks. I don't live there. It ever becomes an issue for them, they'll address it.

Same thing goes for Belize. When (if) you're trying to build a tourist destination, you're trading money for entertainment, not social justice or "caring"

 

[AWMIII]

It is like the Mafia. The reason no other operators were interested is because there are none in Belize City that I know of that are not doing trips for the cruise lines. I am sure their contract with the cruise line has a non-compete. Belize City is not where people go to go diving so there is no competition. The rates I quoted were from the Sea Sports Belize website. They are also the ones that cater to the cruisers.

When he said they don't give a shiot about the country they are visiting, he didn't mean internal troubles. He meant that they would probably be happier at Epcot.

I guess no one got the Morris reference.