Sorry another tipping question

[Yazrick]

Don't you think it might be exchange rate related ?

 

[Doc]

I would rather not mention the boat just yet, however you are implying that I am not telling the truth.

:shakehead Jeepers. Last week I got along fine with 12 Brits- even some from your hometown area. Sorry you took it wrong. Of course, they ran up one heck of an admirable bar bill on a weeks liveaboard!

So, Okay, which boat? Then we might be better able to tell you whether you are dealing with a bunch of shysters. I and others here know every boat in the Galapagos pretty well. For us, it's like Maldives would be for you. Exotic and distant but not outside the realm of doing multiple times.

If you are looking for specific advice, you have to provide such information.

 

[Fionab]

So, Okay, which boat? If you are looking for specific advice, you have to provide such information.

The boat is DeepBlue, we wanted to book this boat based on some excellent trip reports we found on the net.

There are 14 of us booked and some of us are doing extra trips to Peru so this will be a very expensive trip, we just feel very annoyed as it is apparently the boat owner who has complained to the US operator. I am afraid some of our group feel he should pay his staff a decent wage and not reply on guest to make them up.

We are being charged £206 at the current exchange rate of £1 - $1.80 which is $370.

 

[Doc]

The boat is DeepBlue, we wanted to book this boat based on some excellent trip reports we found on the net.

I have seen this ship, but only closely from a launch. The dive deck was in perfect order, and my recollection matched the well designed layout shown at http://www.deepbluegalapagos.com/page3.html I have seen much worse boats in the G, I would put her in the top 10 for divers.

This is a dive boat. Many miniature cruise ships also offer diving. You have made a proper choice.

as it is apparently the boat owner who has complained to the US operator.

Not sure that this is relevant, but how do you know? What did he complain about? What was the real stated extra cost charge? Was it for a "required tip" or is this just a supposition on your part... or fed from information supplied by the stateside operator? I'm not asking you to divine the truth, just merely "what you heard and from whom".

Don't get me wrong, I'd be as honked off as you with any intimation of a required tip, but was that really the stated reason? Maybe it's a fuel cost issue with recent changes?

I am afraid some of our group feel he should pay his staff a decent wage and not reply on guest to make them up.

Welcome to the world of liveaboards. And there are regional variations. In Egypt, we were admonished to not tip as we would in the Caribbean, lest the crew be insulted. (OK, let me get my brain wrapped around that one!)

In Sharm, we NorthAmericans were also reminded of the continental custom of already adding a 15% service charge to the bill for meal service. See- there's a difference that has turned the tables on your surpirse! In the States we tip 15% for good service, more or less as it would dictate. We are not used to having the dinner bill having it already figured in, but we go with it. However....

Nor are we used to seeing a liveaboard tip figured in. That's an odd one.

We are being charged £206 at the current exchange rate of £1 - $1.80 which is $370.

Once again, we fall victim of internet communication gaps. We know now the ship you are intending, but have no idea of what you are getting for $370. Is that a daily rate multiplied times X days?

If you do 7 x $370 that would be $2590, and if you look at (the closest thing to) their website, you'll see that the Monday to Monday rate is $1650. Hmmmmmmm

What exactly are you getting? Are they going to drag you to Wolf and Darwin? Personally, I wouldn't pay the extra money and take the lengthy crossing, but the point is: What is included in your trip?

Ground (guided?) transfers from Baltra? (It's quite a long haul!) Shore trips? Darwin/Wolf? Diving? (all or some or night diving or nitrox or...?)

If I was to bet, I'd say this is someone at the boat end crying about fuel price increases.

Fill in the details that you have.

(I would also suggest you read http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=151452 which is a recent post from a Deep Blue Guest. Very sketchy on details but the original commercial post states:

Price of Trip: $2,795.00 {$/7=$400 per day}
INCLUDES - One space on the "DEEP BLUE", round trip airfare from Guayaquil to
Galapagos, 2 nights at the Grand Hotel in Guayaquil, mainland airport transfers and recompression chamber fee

DOES NOT INCLUDE - International airfare to Ecuador, meals in mainland Ecuador,
Galapagos National Park Fee (100), Ecuador Departe Tax ($25), Crew or Guide tips,
bar tab or personal items
(maybe you could invite their further comment here?)

 

[Fionab]

Once again, we fall victim of internet communication gaps. We know now the ship you are intending, but have no idea of what you are getting for $370. Is that a daily rate multiplied times X days?

If you do 7 x $370 that would be $2590, and if you look at (the closest thing to) their website, you'll see that the Monday to Monday rate is $1650. Hmmmmmmm

The $370 I mentioned is the Mandatory crew tip they are adding to each of our invoices. There are 14 of us booked which works out at $5180 in crew tips for the 10 day trip.

If it was a fuel surcharge then I could understand that, but some of that would also be absorbed by our operator.

I don't have a problem with what is included in the cost of the trip and what are "extra" like nitrox we know about those.

Maybe we are blowing this out of proportion, but some are not happy and there will be quite a few British and European divers not happy when they also receive their invoice.

 

[Doc]

The $370 I mentioned is the Mandatory crew tip they are adding to each of our invoices.

I too have problems with a mandatory tip.

But still a bit more info please... what is the TOTAL excluding that "mandatory" tip?

 

[Fionab]

I too have problems with a mandatory tip.

But still a bit more info please... what is the TOTAL excluding that "mandatory" tip?

The service charge, based on the boat only portion of your holiday (ie. US$3,715), is subject to exchange rate fluctuations and has been calculated at $1.8/£1.

Obviously this doesn't include the usual onboard extras like bar bill and nitrox, marine park fees and chamber fees, just the boat costs.

 

[Doc]

So, Okay, a ten day itin that at $3715 they are demanding a 10% paid in advance tip.

If you own the whole boat and the trip time is near, I'd tell them that you'll pay that and more at the end of the week for good service.

Just be sure that your group is ready to pay that amount.

Otherwise, it sounds just like the crock that you thought it might be. It aint a European restaurant.... but it is an "american" dive boat, and 10% is what the locals do!

 

[cerich]

The crew on most liveaboards make around $100-150 usd a week, they work 16 hours a day or more for 6-8 weeks then get two off. They take the job because of the glamour that soon wears off and the tips which on a charter with Americans will easily be $300-600 per crew member.

Brits don't tip(most of the time, sometimes they use it as an excuse not to tip), the crew most likely have forced the owner to add the tip in the price because they couldn't afford to even take the time off on what they get payed when there are no tips.

I don't think you should have to pay considering you weren't informed of it when you booked.

 

[webhead]

The crew on most liveaboards make around $100-150 usd a week, they work 16 hours a day or more for 6-8 weeks then get two off. They take the job because of the glamour that soon wears off and the tips which on a charter with Americans will easily be $300-600 per crew member.

Not saying they don't work hard, don't derserve better pay, etc. But it's all an euphemism.

Brits don't tip(most of the time, sometimes they use it as an excuse not to tip), the crew most likely have forced the owner to add the tip in the price because they couldn't afford to even take the time off on what they get payed when there are no tips.

I don't think you should have to pay considering you weren't informed of it when you booked.

It's a chicken and the egg situation. Do they make great tips so their hourly wage went down or do they get low pay and end up living on tips? If you add the tip upfront, how is that different than paying a higer wage? i.e. $100 trip with $30 tip or just charge $130 with no tipping.


But is it fair to force a fix amount tip from one group of people while others are allowed to use their discretion? I know if someone said you're going to pay this amount for a tip and then let someone else volunteer a lesser amount, I'd be pretty pissed.

Seems like this guy is gambling... that he's not going to get tips by people from certain countries (mandatory tipping) and the ones that normally tip might go overboard (open tipping).

Maybe you need to book a trip and say you're a Brit living in the States.