Some Thoughts on Independent Doubles

[rjack321]

There are people who can not reach a manifold. Should they not have a redundant option?

ETA: I'm not talking about caving here. Just open water diving with one type of gas.

Shrugs. The number of people sidemounting cause they envision themselves as the next coming of Steve Bogarts compared to the number of people who physically will never be able to reach an isolation manifold is about 10,000 to 1.

 

[Marie13]

There are people who can not reach a manifold. Should they not have a redundant option?

ETA: I'm not talking about caving here. Just open water diving with one type of gas.

And don’t forget about the more likely possibility of people with back/knee/ankle issues that can’t handle 100lbs + of steel tanks on their backs. But who gives a flying fig about the gimpy people, right?

 

[Raphus]

For some the notion of rapidly closing a manifold is just not a reality.

Swapping regs, sure. (side or ID)
Maybe managing to crack open the manifold to re-equalize, sure. (progressive)
Rapidly closing it, no.

So there are other ways.

So its because of the physical condition? Thats an answer i can understand and agree on.

But generally manifolds are much safer and not hard to manipulate. So besides the physical inability to reach the valves, i cant see any reasons.

 

[Raphus]

And don’t forget about the more likely possibility of people with back/knee/ankle issues that can’t handle 100lbs + of steel tanks on their backs. But who fixes a flying fig about the gimpy people, right?

Thats something that comes to my mind aswell..

If someone can lift doubles, they should be able to manipulate manifolds. Of course there are always exceptions..
But the amount of people prefering ID is surprisingly high.

I dont want to be rude, but i learned, that if someone cant manipulate his valves, he should not do ( advanced) tech diving.
Like i said, there are always exceptions. I just try to understand.

I am not a tech instructor. Just recreational instructor. But sometimes i show people how to dive doubles. Not as a course, or tech related.
Most of them told me, that they cant reach their valves. 2 of them wanted to quit doubles and change to SM. After 10 min in the water they were able to manipulate valves and manifold. Not really because i am good or sth. Just because no one showed them the correct way, which is not hard.

So i am always interested in learning. Thats why i am asking

 

[Marie13]

Thats something that comes to my mind aswell..

If someone can lift doubles, they should be able to manipulate manifolds. Of course there are always exceptions..
But the amount of people prefering ID is surprisingly high.

I’m in the SM due to knee issue category. If people can’t manipulate the valves on doubles, go SM. They’re right under your armpits. I don’t get ID. The advantage with SM is you don’t have to carry two tanks at once.

 

[MichaelMc]

who physically will never be able to reach an isolation manifold is

I think will never be able to reach is a key to the distinction. That number may be small. The number without diligent effort, conditioning, persistent stretching, lifestyle and diet changes is larger.

The gap is 'this is the one thing I care most about it the world' and 'this is an interesting thing to do'.

I sidemount. I can easily reach a manifold. But I like sidemount. It is much more flexible in the water. My bones and limbs are older and I'm fairly past the hero worship stage. But this is not about sidemount, it is about back ID I believe.

 

[MichaelMc]

So besides the physical inability to reach the valves, i cant see any reasons.

Manifold doubles are a tad hard to rent on a boat or shop or travel with in general.

I absolutely can manipulate my valves. They are right at my sides.
Or if you want to do advanced tech, the other valves are on the wee little bottles on my back.
(I'm not rebreather qual'd, but that would be advanced tech to me.)

Oh, I also have some tiny doubles for easy fun dives. I can manipulate those valves just fine.

 

[Raphus]

Manifold doubles are a tad hard to rent on a boat or shop or travel with in general.

true and an issue i thought about recently.
Thats the reason why i though about SM for holidays.

So you bringt tank bands(is that the correct English name?) With you and just strap 2 tanks on? That is actually a very good reason, at least for NDL or very short deco dives with a good safety margin.

 

[rjack321]

true and an issue i thought about recently.
Thats the reason why i though about SM for holidays.

So you bringt tank bands(is that the correct English name?) With you and just strap 2 tanks on? That is actually a very good reason, at least for NDL or very short deco dives with a good safety margin.

Any place which has the gases, boat, and staff etc to actually support tech diving also has doubles for rent nowadays.

(tank bands is the usual term in english yes)

 

[MichaelMc]

Any place which has the gases, boat, and staff etc to actually support tech diving also has doubles for rent nowadays.

What about the folk that want redundancy for rec diving? This is a solo thread after all.

Must they suffer the horrors of a pony, or the tribulations of 'complex' sidemount? Can they not use ID?

I think renting manifold doubles on your average rec vacation dive boat is very unlikely.