Some Final Questions...

[TightLines]

I have finally been pushed into taking the plunge in underwater photography as I was just given an S90(maybe the GF was fedup with the amount of time spent on SB doing research for the past 2 months). I’ve been shooting topside with DSLRs for several years but think it makes sense to take it easy (and cheaper) and start with a P&S to learn the basics, after all, I’ve seen some really great shots from you guys using P&S rigs. I plan to shoot RAW and do some post processing in LR 2

Even given the amount of time I’ve spent on here, WetPixel, and UWPhotoGuide I still have a handful of questions before I move any farther.

For those of you willing to share your knowledge and help another newbie I have numbered my questions below to make them easier to answer.

Absolutely ANY input related to the topics below would be greatly appreciated.

Housing:

I’m likely going to start with the Ikelite housing for the improved quality over the OEM housing, the 67 mm threads for wet mounts, and because it’s a little lighter on the wallet than the FIX.

Lenses:

I will likely begin with a basic macro and WA lens.

For macro I am considering the Inon 165 67mm

For WA I thought the Ikelite W-20 would be a good offering without the expense of a dome

1) Can I get some honest feedback on these lenses when paired up with the Ike housing?

2) Is it worth it to go the bayonet route for an easier swap underwater? What would this entail?


Strobes:

This is where I am really lost…

2) As I begin I would like to work on composition and camera settings / modes rather than strobe settings. Is it possible to shoot TTL (or some variation of automatic exposure)with the S90??

3) Just to make sure I’m not too far off base, any strobe paired with an S90 have to be fired by a fiber optic cable, correct?

Just from my reading it seems the Ikelite AF35 , Inon S2000, and S&S YS-01 are the popular recommendations.

4) Could someone give me a brief breakdown on any key differences between these?

5) Does the sTTL on the Inon S2000 work well?


Tray/Arms:

I understand this is largely a subjective matter and really boils down to weight, style, and flexibility.

I will likely go with a ULCS or Ikelite single handle system here.


6) Anything obvious I may have missed?

 

[Nemrod]

I will not going to respond to the housing and lens questions because I have posted multiple threads and responses on this forum and in the forum in my signature testing extensively various lenses and if you are interested in my results you can read those threads.

Strobes, yes, you want optical fiber cables and yes that is how you will sync with your 90 and yes you can have "simulated" TTL with the S90 using various Inon or YS strobes when operated in Auto/Program/Av or TV modes with the camera strobe selected to automatic and in the case of Inon strobes the strobe selected to sTTL mode. Beyond this I have already, again, posted exhaustive and exhausting how to set Inon strobes with Canon P&S cameras and if you are interested you can read them where I set up every possible combination of camera setting and strobe setting over and over.

If you have a specific question I can try and answer it, I understand and speak Inon .

I prefer the Inon D2000 to the S2000 because it has IMO, more power, more coverage, a modeling light, the very useful External Auto mode for strobe auto exposure even with the camera (S90/G110 in Manual) and is my preferred strobe mode.

I made my own tray, I used cheap arms from Optical ocean Sales.

Personally, in this case (pun), I would get the FIX90 housing.

Good luck with your new adventure.
N

 

[fongalv]

Lenses:

2) Is it worth it to go the bayonet route for an easier swap underwater? What would this entail?

Strobes:

This is where I am really lost…

Just from my reading it seems the Ikelite AF35 , Inon S2000, and S&S YS-01 are the popular recommendations.

4) Could someone give me a brief breakdown on any key differences between these?

Tray/Arms:

I will likely go with a ULCS or Ikelite single handle system here.

For Lenses, I personally went for the bayonet mount because the main reason for my move to the S90+FIX(from a G7) was that I wanted to switch between macro and WA easily and quickly during a dive. Personally, the bayonetting can be done easily and quickly once you get the hang of it, on the 67mm screw thread you would have to be alot more carefull not to cross the threads, and is also generally slower.

For strobes, I too have been seriously considering the S2000 and YS-01. I loaned a YS-01 from a friend for my last trip and liked it quite abit. The s2000 is really small, and I guess the main differences is that it lacks a focus/modelling light, and also the fact that it requires an additional magnet to select between flash/pre=flash modes. For the S90(or most canon compacts out there), there is only preflash in the auto/semi-auto modes and not in manual. Therefore if you were to switch between modes during a dive, it is rather cumbersome to work the magnet on the S2000 but the YS-01 has a dedicated switch for flash/preflash manual, therefore making it more convenient. I am personally inclined towards the S&S because it it considerably cheaper where I can get it locally, has a modelling light, and also a supposedly separate battery compartment that makes it less likely to fry during a flood.

The AF35 is probably the cheapest of the lot(and less fuss), but it is also a weaker strobe and the setup generally less twinkerable. The short bendy arm means rather limited strobe positions, and also does not really provide any means to fix a lens holder in case you want to switch lenses. I took the bullet and went for a simple ULCS setup and liked it alot more than my previous 10bar long flexible arm because it is less prone to unintended movements and allows a far wider range of positions.


Hope you find these comments helpfull!

 

[Nemrod]

The magnet does not have to be removed from the S/D2000 to switch from sTTL to Manual or EA strobe mode. The sTTL switch position overrides the magnet switch in sTTL. You will have to configure your S90 for Manual strobe however in Av/Tv modes and use Manual mode on the S2000 or EA or Manual with the Z240/D2000.

N

 

[TightLines]

I will not going to respond to the housing and lens questions because I have posted multiple threads and responses on this forum and in the forum in my signature testing extensively various lenses and if you are interested in my results you can read those threads.

Strobes, yes, you want optical fiber cables and yes that is how you will sync with your 90 and yes you can have "simulated" TTL with the S90 using various Inon or YS strobes when operated in Auto/Program/Av or TV modes with the camera strobe selected to automatic and in the case of Inon strobes the strobe selected to sTTL mode. Beyond this I have already, again, posted exhaustive and exhausting how to set Inon strobes with Canon P&S cameras and if you are interested you can read them where I set up every possible combination of camera setting and strobe setting over and over.

If you have a specific question I can try and answer it, I understand and speak Inon .

I prefer the Inon D2000 to the S2000 because it has IMO, more power, more coverage, a modeling light, the very useful External Auto mode for strobe auto exposure even with the camera (S90/G110 in Manual) and is my preferred strobe mode.

I made my own tray, I used cheap arms from Optical ocean Sales.

Personally, in this case (pun), I would get the FIX90 housing.

Good luck with your new adventure.
N

Nem,

Thanks for weighing in. Believe it or not I've no doubt spent hours at this point reading various threads you have both started and replied to. I, and I'm sure countless others, are very appreciative of your input and your patience in dealing with the multiple "s90" topics that inundate this forum. All of that being said, I will admit that comprehending some of what you post (because I am a beginner to UW photo) is VERY difficult, despite the fact that I'm an experienced topside photographer. Hence my above questions. I left many of these open ended because, believe it or not, I'm not sure what the right questions are.

Some links to the threads you cited above would certainly be a big help.

Thanks for your input on the board and know that it's appreciated. At some point I'll figure out the right questions to ask.

 

[TightLines]

For Lenses, I personally went for the bayonet mount because the main reason for my move to the S90+FIX(from a G7) was that I wanted to switch between macro and WA easily and quickly during a dive. Personally, the bayonetting can be done easily and quickly once you get the hang of it, on the 67mm screw thread you would have to be alot more carefull not to cross the threads, and is also generally slower.

For strobes, I too have been seriously considering the S2000 and YS-01. I loaned a YS-01 from a friend for my last trip and liked it quite abit. The s2000 is really small, and I guess the main differences is that it lacks a focus/modelling light, and also the fact that it requires an additional magnet to select between flash/pre=flash modes. For the S90(or most canon compacts out there), there is only preflash in the auto/semi-auto modes and not in manual. Therefore if you were to switch between modes during a dive, it is rather cumbersome to work the magnet on the S2000 but the YS-01 has a dedicated switch for flash/preflash manual, therefore making it more convenient. I am personally inclined towards the S&S because it it considerably cheaper where I can get it locally, has a modelling light, and also a supposedly separate battery compartment that makes it less likely to fry during a flood.

The AF35 is probably the cheapest of the lot(and less fuss), but it is also a weaker strobe and the setup generally less twinkerable. The short bendy arm means rather limited strobe positions, and also does not really provide any means to fix a lens holder in case you want to switch lenses. I took the bullet and went for a simple ULCS setup and liked it alot more than my previous 10bar long flexible arm because it is less prone to unintended movements and allows a far wider range of positions.


Hope you find these comments helpfull!

Thanks for the details on the YS-01 and especially for explaining the mechanics of why some strobes can't fire with automatic exposure in full manual mode. This is one of the basics (no preflash) that I've been pushing to learn.

Will the AF35 shoot in some sort of TTL equivalent?

 

[Nemrod]

Lenses:

1) Can I get some honest feedback on these lenses when paired up with the Ike housing? IMO, the Ikelite W20 and Inon UCL165-67mm should work fine with your Ikelite and S90

2) Is it worth it to go the bayonet route for an easier swap underwater? What would this entail? IMO, the Ikelite housing is NOT a good candidate for the 10Bar AD to 67mm adapter for mounting the Inon UWL105AD, UFL165AD but may be acceptable with the UCL165AD macro. The Seatool bayonet mounts and mounting adapters will not work because they place the accessory lens too far from the camera lens entirely. Inon AD and 28AD lenses are bayonet mount, Seatool/Fsiheye have a bayonet system available as well coded as ST on some of their lenses indicating their proprietary bayonet mount system.


Strobe

2) As I begin I would like to work on composition and camera settings / modes rather than strobe settings. Is it possible to shoot TTL (or some variation of automatic exposure)with the S90?? Yes, Inon and YS strobe have a "simulated" TTL mode (sTTL) which mimics the camera's strobe (when in Auto flash mode under the Menu button). The camera does not know the source of light for exposure be it from the onboard strobe or the Inon/YS strobe and does not care and the Inon strobe is "smart" and is able to provide the correct exposure. I prefer the External Auto mode however which is not sTTL but utilizes a separate exposure sensor in the Inon D2000/Z240 strobe head. The S2000 does not have this ability.

3) Just to make sure I’m not too far off base, any strobe paired with an S90 have to be fired by a fiber optic cable, correct? Yes, you want to use fiber optic cables appropriate to the strobe, you can also slave directly from the flah without a cable but that also means the open sensor on your strobe will fire from other strobes and that the camera strobe light will cause back scatter.

Just from my reading it seems the Ikelite AF35 , Inon S2000, and S&S YS-01 are the popular recommendations. Yes, but I highly recommend the more capable D2000.


4) Could someone give me a brief breakdown on any key differences between these? The D2000 is a more powerful strobe, more coverage, more even exposure, External Auto mode and larger controls and a built in modeling light and twin flash tubes. The S2000 does not have the EA mode, a single tube, no modeling light. The Z240 has wired capability for growth, a bit more power, the AF35, lol, I will pass on that, no optical cables, open slave mode, fires on other people's strobes, no thanks, my opinion.

5) Does the sTTL on the Inon S2000 work well? Yes

If my answers are to complicated just let me know and I will attempt to simplify. You are not the only one who has told me that and frankly, I don't have any simple answers, the devil is in the details, sorry.

N

 

[TightLines]

Nem,

Thanks for the responses - I'm now starting to get my head around some of the more fundamental issues here.

How does the D2000's External Auto (this must be the EA mode I see referenced in posts) make a judgment on flash comp without knowing anything about the exposure settings on the camera?

The "modeling light" on the D2000 is functionally a focus light correct? Is it easy enough to use and work well enough to rid the need for a proper focus light?

If you're ever in Boston I certainly owe you a few beers.

 

[Nemrod]

How does the D2000's External Auto (this must be the EA mode I see referenced in posts) make a judgment on flash comp without knowing anything about the exposure settings on the camera? The strobe has a built in exposure system, there is a light sensor which can be seen at the approximate 4 o'clock position. The strobe assumes you are at ISO100 and you dial in a matching f stop on the strobe and your camera. Strobe exposure is controlled principally by f stop and strobe output. You have told the strobe the f stop to expect and it knows it's power level and the sensor sees the result and shuts the strobe off when what it think proper exposure is has been met. You can trick the strobe by using different ISO, different f stops or dialing in a different f stop (different form the actual camera setting etc.) to achieve a result other than what the strobe would normally calculate. The downside to the EA mode is that the strobe must be pointed in the direction of the subject whereas sTTL the strobe can be bounced or directed considerably off axis to the subject.

The "modeling light" on the D2000 is functionally a focus light correct? Is it easy enough to use and work well enough to rid the need for a proper focus light? The modeling light is a fairly powerful LED lamp, yes it works very well, is very bright and is easy to use and cancels when you fire the strobe. Some people still prefer a separate focus light. The light on the YS strobe is similar.

If you're ever in Boston I certainly owe you a few beers. LOL, no worries.

The S2000 is a wonderful strobe, the disadvantage is that there is no modeling light, the small size can make the controls very tiny, while it is claimed to have the same GN as the D2000 it really does not have quite the power or coverage IMO. The lack of the EA mode is a biggie to me. Then there is camera battery life, the sTTL mode requires that the camera flash work in automatic (strobe automatic setting) and therefore will consume battery power at a much higher rate than the camera strobe being set in strobe manual setting, low power, and used as a sync trigger only for the D2000 in EA mode. You have to decide, is the smaller size worth the compromises, for some yes and for others like me the answer was no. The G series has a better battery life than the S series so that can be a factor also. I get about 60% of the shots in sTTL that I would in EA, YRMV.

N

 

[under water]

...

3) Just to make sure I’m not too far off base, any strobe paired with an S90 have to be fired by a fiber optic cable, correct? Yes, you want to use fiber optic cables appropriate to the strobe, you can also slave directly from the flash without a cable but that also means the open sensor on your strobe will fire from other strobes and that the camera strobe light will cause back scatter.
..N

This is what it looks like when you trigger someone else's strobes. Like a truck driving through!