Some broad questions about gear and the LDS

[scubafied]

I notice a lot of people putting a lot of emphasis on, or worried about, what a certain LDS thinks of you and your probability of spending lots of bucks in his/her shop. Who cares? It's their problem, not yours. Go to theirs or another nearby shop if there is one, try stuff on which you may or may not buy. Rent a few things and when you decide to buy, go online or to Ebay and get what you need. Your size in BCD's can be anywhere from Medium to XLG, depending on which Chinese or Vietnamese factory they are produced in. If you can save enough money to cover sending one back for the correct size you're OK. Same goes for wetsuits unless you are, like me, built kind of off the beaten path, and really should have one built for your shape. Otherwise there are plenty of scissors and glue around. As far as expensive items like computers, watches and less expensive items like gloves, fins and masks you can pick up most of the info you need right here. Care more about your wallet and well-being than some employee or owner of a dive shop.

You kinda missed the point. I did buy most of my stuff online, but the problem directly relates to me as a customer if I go into a shop that services that brand of gear and I get attitude just because I didn't buy it from them. You're right about taking it to another shop but as I said, only 1 of the 3 near me , acted like they were interested in helping me with what I needed. If that hadn't happened I'd be driving 50 miles or more to get things serviced. They're still making money off of any servicing my equipment may need, and have the opportunity to sell me on anything in the store while I'm there as well as additional training. So again, why the attitude?

 

[300bar]

I notice a lot of people putting a lot of emphasis on, or worried about, what a certain LDS thinks of you and your probability of spending lots of bucks in his/her shop. Who cares? It's their problem, not yours. Go to theirs or another nearby shop if there is one, try stuff on which you may or may not buy. Rent a few things and when you decide to buy, go online or to Ebay and get what you need. Your size in BCD's can be anywhere from Medium to XLG, depending on which Chinese or Vietnamese factory they are produced in. If you can save enough money to cover sending one back for the correct size you're OK. Same goes for wetsuits unless you are, like me, built kind of off the beaten path, and really should have one built for your shape. Otherwise there are plenty of scissors and glue around. As far as expensive items like computers, watches and less expensive items like gloves, fins and masks you can pick up most of the info you need right here. Care more about your wallet and well-being than some employee or owner of a dive shop.

Correct me IF I'm wrong, but what you're saying is, USE your LDS as a cheap display and fitting room and buy somewhere else???
Guess your LDSes will go broke pretty soon,they can't live on airfills.
Just because of that attitude shop owners are looking at some customers as if they are not worthy of their time. And yes sometimes we/they do misjudge.

Just a thought.

 

[Avonthediver]

All that being said, I have one last question for those that dive 75 times a year or more. What piece of gear do you find yourself replacing the most and is it because of wear and tear or because you, not unlike me, have to have the newest toys and don't mind the hassle of selling the old.

I find myself replacing my boot's, glove's, and suit most often

 

[300bar]

You kinda missed the point. I did buy most of my stuff online, but the problem directly relates to me as a customer if I go into a shop that services that brand of gear and I get attitude just because I didn't buy it from them. You're right about taking it to another shop but as I said, only 1 of the 3 near me , acted like they were interested in helping me with what I needed. If that hadn't happened I'd be driving 50 miles or more to get things serviced. They're still making money off of any servicing my equipment may need, and have the opportunity to sell me on anything in the store while I'm there as well as additional training. So again, why the attitude?

Hmm, making money on serviceing, don't know what you get payed per hour
But a standard/full overhaul will cost about $100 (right?)
2 hours of work + parts and you think the LDS can live on that

As stated above, your LDS needs the sales all the rest is service.
Your airfills will NOT keep them alive.
Your xtra training will not aswell, just call your local pool and ask what they charge per hour

Just an other thought.

 

[scubafied]

@ 300bar- You're right, and I wasn't trying to suggest they live off of just service charges and refills. I understand the need for them to focus on the entire scope of diving regarding retail/air fills/services/certs in order to stay afloat. Not just one of these aspects is going to keep their business running, they need all of them.

Here's an example to try and explain what I'm fully getting at. This past winter I worked part-time for my friend that owns one of only 2 Professional Ski and Snowboard dealers in our immediate area. He's got a huge variety of retail items as well as a full-service shop to help service goods. While the majority of his income is obviously going to come in the way of hard and soft goods leaving the store, there is a huge amount of servicing we do and I'd wager 75% of our tunes or services we conduct are for customers that have never been in before or it is for gear they bought elsewhere. We even get those that will buy a board from us, put the other local shops stickers all over it and when it comes down to servicing, guess who they come back to? Things like this are because of the word of mouth we get for trying to help everyone through the door, regardless of what it is they may need or where they got their stuff or that customers affiliation issues.

While I know the aspects are certainly different (you don't have to be certified by a specific company to work on their brands in this industry unless your mounting ski bindings), if we were to turn away everyone that needed something other than our retail sales services, my friend would not only lose those customers for servicing but probably sales as well and quite possibly anyone they spoke to later about it. You said it yourself, shops can't survive on servicing alone but if the employee is getting a nominal wage and the parts are either warrantied or inexpensive, the shop is still making a good amount off of said service. It's not a killing but every little bit helps.

 

[AndrewK2]

If dive shops need more sales, they can sell gear online as well, just like all their competitors do. It can't be very difficult to set up an online shopfront in addition to the physical one, especially if both have competitive prices. I've been living in Australia for the last year (originally from Canada) and I was horrified by the price of gear here - literally double what things were back home and 400.00 bucks for a simple 5mm wetsuit. Wasn't going to be shopping in stores around here.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm in the process of setting up a very basic on line store now. Not flashy or full of tricks but one that will be functional and allow me to interact with my customers because while there are prices I can advertise, those prices may not be the final selling price. To set up a full featured site like many on line shops have I was quoted a price of over 2 grand - to start. A good designer can do one relatively quickly then it becomes a matter of maintaining it. Updating, inventory, item descriptions change etc. But you are correct the LDS that does not do this is at a disadvantage. I'm an independent instructor that operates out of his home and basement. But I have had a website since the day I became an instructor and it has paid for itself many times over what it cost me to set it up.

But back to the original question - shops should strive to serve every customer that comes in like they were going to buy the entire store. The ones that don't are being very foolish. Shop will not service regs of the same brand they sell bought elsewhere or on line? Walk away and never look back. They don't know if you got those regs on line, from another local dealer, or as gift from your out of state relatives. The ones that give you grief likely will fail. The first rule in retail is the customer is always right -even when they are not.

No one wants to lose sale to a competitor but if I don;t have what you want I will do my best to direct you to someone who does. Last week I had a person contact me about a BPW. I did not have everything they were looking for but gave them some options and websites to check and as a result through their own efforts they found another one. They bought the BPW from the other place. I lost that sale. But you know what? Due to the way I handled the whole thing, tonite I will be assembling and testing the complete reg set they ordered from me. Kinda says something about taking the high road. And I bet down the road they'll look to me again for other items.

 

[TSandM]

A lot of dive shops aren't run very well as businesses. And it's pretty clear that making a living running a dive shop isn't easy -- I've laid the ill-temper and lack of enthusiasm I often find down to owners who are sick of spending 10 hours a day in their store (instead of diving) and worried about finances, but I don't know that for sure. But I shake my head about relatively simple things that shops don't do -- for example, I want to replace my hood. I bought it, on impulse, at my LDS a year ago and it turned out to fit very well. I've been in several times, and each time when I take tanks for fills, I ask the owner if he has my size, and he doesn't.

Wouldn't it seem reasonable for him, the next time he places an order with the manufacturer, to order a hood in my size? He could then call me and tell me he now has it, and I would go buy it. Instead, I'm going to buy one on line, because I can get it today, and probably cheaper.

Anyway, I think you have a great attitude and insight into how things in this sport can and will go, if you really want to optimize your gear. I think Peter and I are quite like you, in that we've been involved in other outdoor sports, and gone through the gear evolution. In diving, it went kind of like this: I bought relatively inexpensive gear recommended by our local shop when I got certified. That gear allowed me to get in the water a lot and meet local divers. I quickly learned that what I had was not at all optimal for my environment, so less than six months after I bought my stuff, I replaced most of it.

The next year consisted of adding things, mostly good lights.

Then I started tweaking the things I had -- I bought a different dry suit (utter disaster purchase!) and upgraded my computer. I sold the second dry suit and bought a third dry suit and upgraded my undergarment. I tried a heated vest. I upgraded my light, and picked up a spare, used, from an internet forum. I had a bunch of modifications made to the third dry suit. I bought an Argon bottle and argon reg.

I bought a set of doubles and a doubles wing (used) and a couple of deco bottles and deco regs. I upgraded my computer again. I bought a reel and a bunch of other stuff required for the kind of diving I had decided to do (caves).

And along the way, I replaced things that wore out -- seals, hoods (anything made of neoprene fatigues over time), dry suit inflator and dump valves, wing inflators (which can only be serviced a couple of times before they just plain leak . . .), bulbs and ballasts for lights.

And don't even get STARTED talking to people who have underwater cameras . . .

I spent the weekend at the Tacoma Dive Expo, walking around and looking at what the vendors were hawking. You can catch my eye with anything where the solution I have isn't perfect yet -- that includes dry suits, undergarments, and lights.

 

[jmasin]

All I can add is my own experience - I'm very glad I rented gear first because when I did buy I got something I really really liked. Had a I bought first i know that wouldn't have been the case because I would have gone a different way. I guess I've been fortunate, I haven't really done any re-buys or tweaks. I've slowly expanded my gear. I am slowly expanding my camera setup, added a real strobe this year etc., but I tend to do a lot of research before purchasing so I'm pretty sure this setup will be good for me, and this strobe can be used if my camera involves.

I buy a mix of online and from the LDS. My LDS also puts together a dive club, so there's a social aspect/relationship too, which is nice. I try to support the guys as much as possible. There are some items though I just can't bring myself to pay the premium for, but for all life-support items, I purchase from LDS. I just like being able to chat with someone about the stuff.

 

[Kenny13]

All I can add is my own experience - I'm very glad I rented gear first because when I did buy I got something I really really liked. Had a I bought first i know that wouldn't have been the case because I would have gone a different way. I guess I've been fortunate, I haven't really done any re-buys or tweaks. I've slowly expanded my gear. I am slowly expanding my camera setup, added a real strobe this year etc., but I tend to do a lot of research before purchasing so I'm pretty sure this setup will be good for me, and this strobe can be used if my camera involves.

I buy a mix of online and from the LDS. My LDS also puts together a dive club, so there's a social aspect/relationship too, which is nice. I try to support the guys as much as possible. There are some items though I just can't bring myself to pay the premium for, but for all life-support items, I purchase from LDS. I just like being able to chat with someone about the stuff.

I'm just the opposite. I'm really glad that I bought my own stuff early on (less than 10 logged dives). Every shop I checked with only offers the basic full jacket style BCD's with their rentals. Without knowing for sure what I would like best, the one thing I did learn from my OW class and the few times I did rent was that I absolutely did not feel comfortable in that full jacket style BC. I was able to speak with my instructor and he showed me a few things, and I was able to try on some for comfort in the shop and ended up with gear that was totally comfortable from the very first time I used it. And next time I go diving I know I'll have the same gear with no surprises or having to jump through hoops in adjusting something to try to make it fit me.

I do agree with trying to buy from your LDS whenever possible. I really need to try to develop a relationship with my LDS. I actually have a few to choose from. One I visit fairly frequently, the owners & staff are extremely friendly and helpful but I just wasn't interested in much of the selection of BC's, regs, etc. that they offered. I do however buy things like weights and accessories from them just to help them out, as I do like dealing with them. They are expanding, so possibly they will end up with more stuff I like. The other LDS that I've been to, my son & I were the only 2 customers there on a Saturday morning. We were there for 10 minutes and the clerks who were talking about what they did Friday night didn't even acknowledge our presence before we walked out. However, they do have a pool & they service some of the brands I did purchase so I guess I'll have to give them a second chance. Unfortunately, what is the "LDS" that I really deal with - got certified, purchased BC, regs, wetsuit, etc. is over 200 miles away, but they treat us great including a few free rentals. Not all of the LDS's are bad!