Solo diving with a long hose (split from Should non-DIR divers use a long hose)

[Nemrod]

Never knew a long hose which was intended for cave diving so a buddy could trail through narrow passages would have such a loyal following in open water solo diving or whatever kinda diving. I don't generally use single hose regulators, Royal AquaMaster for me, the King of Regulators, so smooth and reliable and comfortable and simple. Nonetheless I have installed some time ago on my favorite single hose units and on the octa that I use with the Royal (when not solo) a high quality swivel at the second stage. These in conjunction with a 40 inch hose allow the regulator to route below my arm and very close to my body and it also prevents it pulling downward. I will pass on the seven foot long hose wrapped around my neck--lol---but if it works for you then great. If your solo diving and your the only one in the ocean then who is going to run into you out of air? We had a thread about octapus and solo, I don't use a octa when solo. If I am going deep enough that I feel I need redundancy then I have real redundancy like my doubles with a complete second regulator or a pony fitted with complete regulator. Oh well, not completely, I guess I have group soloed with an octa attached to the Royal--just in case---and I bungee it with a quick release to my neck so the diver in need can get it since I don't think they will be able to use my double hose. Buddy breathing really is so easy in open water conditions---just face one another and rotate the hose back and forth to each other, works fine. I think it was a 1960 episode of SeaHunt where Mike Nelson rescued two children from a tidal flooded cave, they buddy breathed the double hose and heck--they had never been diving before so it cannot be that hard! When buddy diving I do the same thing, the donnar regulator is on a 40 inch hose below my arm and bungee to my neck with a quick release or to the web on my BP in my chest area since my primary is a Aqua-Master. I have thought about a quick release buckle for my BP for the LH shoulder strap, I have a bad shoulder and it would help getting in and out but so far I have not installed it. I bought a stainless one for it. In the old days a buckle in that location was common, still love to dive my Voit SnugPacks and they have a buckle in the LH shoulder. I guess we are all weird, we are Solo and that is just plain weird---lol. N

 

[HarleyDiver]

-- I think it was a 1960 episode of SeaHunt where Mike Nelson rescued two children from a tidal flooded cave, they buddy breathed the double hose and heck--they had never been diving before so it cannot be that hard! --lol. N

If I could say "CUT - lets try that one again" anytime things went wrong, I would not worry about backup's either. lol

 

[veggiedog]

Never knew a long hose which was intended for cave diving so a buddy could trail through narrow passages would have such a loyal following in open water solo diving or whatever kinda diving. I don't generally use single hose regulators, Royal AquaMaster for me, the King of Regulators, so smooth and reliable and comfortable and simple. Nonetheless I have installed some time ago on my favorite single hose units and on the octa that I use with the Royal (when not solo) a high quality swivel at the second stage. These in conjunction with a 40 inch hose allow the regulator to route below my arm and very close to my body and it also prevents it pulling downward. I will pass on the seven foot long hose wrapped around my neck--lol---but if it works for you then great. N

I can provide insight into my path to the long hose as a solo diver.

I never have liked having hoses sticking directly out of my first stage (perpindicular to the tank) without protection. And I don't mean the pseudo protection of a hose guard. In the past though, all I had was a short hose and no choice but to run it out the side (limited budget), and it didn't stick out real far. When I went to doubles recently, the problem got worse (stuck out further and was significantly more likely to hit something), but I was no longer budget constrained.

First I went to the octo hose under the arm but came to the conclusion that an elbow was needed for that to have any chance of working. Elbows cost more than a long hose, and the elbow solution is still different than my original setup, which I actually like except for the hose sticking out part (classic gentle loop over the right shoulder to your mouth).

I then tried to route the hose down, looped back up along the back of the tank, over the top of the tank next to the valve, over my right shoulder and to my mouth. I kept the loop bungied to the right tank. This routing provided a much stiffer bend near my mouth as it was only a 90 degree bend from the valve to my mouth rather than a 180 degree bend like the original short hose solution. I was always fighting with it when I turned my head (pulling more hose out to look left, then pushing it back when done looking left). I needed a solution that didn't involve any maintainence or stress on my mouth.

Rather than adding additional connections (elbow), and changing much from my original "hose to second stage" layout, I decided to give the long hose a try. I have been using a long hose for maybe six months now, and I am very happy. The hose is not "around my neck": it drapes across my abdomen, up the left side of my chest, passes behind my neck into a soft bend over my right shoulder to my mouth. Not a lot different than "around the neck", but different enough that it doesn't present a choking hazard. I could have just used the extra long hose length in my second solution to change the 90 degree bend to a 180, but that would have had all the hose on my back and increased my chances of snagging it or pinching it against the tank in a collision (I did lay the long hose out that way just to see, and it was a bit "complicated").

By draping the hose across my front, it is less likely to snag or pinch in a collision. All of that extra hose stays right against my body (just long enough), and I am very happy to have back my original layout (180 degree loop at the second stage). I would submit that the only real tradeoff is an elbow for extra hose, and I still get to keep my original layout near the working end (second stage). However, having never tried the elbow solution, it may have worked out too. I will make the claim though that I have not in the least bit felt the hose length was excessive in actual use.

 

[Scuba]

I was originally averse to adding that much hose, but in actual use I find my original concerns were unwaranted. In the case of the long hose, it has never given me an issue and has been nothing but a success for me. Well, except for my recent realization that now that I also buddy dive I need to have it routed external to my diagonally slung pony, and I am a little concerned about crossing my pony with the hose because of the potential for cutting the hose should I collide with something and pinch the hose between that something and my pony. I currently dive without the pony on buddy dives to avoid this problem (although I only use h-valves or manifolded doubles so I'm still mostly redundant). Any suggestions for using the pony without routing the hose in front of it would be appreciated.

I'm not quite sure of your setup. Do you sling the pony diagonally across your chest? How? If you place the hose internally, between your pony and your body, don't you still have enough hose length available for a fully stretched arm donating the reg. That's all you need to donate, you can then deal with further deployment. Again, I'm not very clear on the situation.

On another subject, I've seen a couple mentions of the usefulness of a longer hose in removing the bc. Don't you keep a firm grip on the bc harness at all times? As long as the hose provides enough length to maneuver at arms length using various position grips one should be able to reach all parts of the bc rig, with no unnecessary hose length to deal with. What exactly is the advantage mentioned? I suppose this is fine in the proper environment, where one can remove bc rig and place it on a surface without concern for loosing the rig or further entanglement, but this is not the case in many other, or many ocean environments.

drbill,

You should know better than that by now!

 

[Nemrod]

"If I could say "CUT - lets try that one again" anytime things went wrong, I would not worry about backup's either. lol"

Or you saying Mike Nelson is not real? I guess you tell little kids there is no Santa too!

In the mean time, if an octapus is the redundancy then it ain't much of that and I ain't much into redundancy anyway, it is all just complication.

veggiedog, your posts are longer than mine, something about hoses going here and wrapping there and tucking over where, whatever, if it works then so be it.

Check this out----if the link works!

Rapidiver.com

N

 

[veggiedog]

Yes Scuba, you are correct and I hadn't thought about that. I have been diving solo with the hose between the pony and my body, pony slung diagonally right chest to left waist. I neglected to consider that a partial deployment might be adequate in a buddy situation. I can merely lower my head as in a normal deployment to deploy at least a standard (octopus) lengths worth of hose. Very easy after that to disconnect the pony at the chest to let loose of the remaining hose in the event that is necessary. However, I suspect that in the vast majority of OW scenarios, I will be locked to my buddy during buddy breathing (hand holding buddies harness), and deploying the extra hose would be not be a good idea. And with that solution I get to keep my hose protected.

I consider the long hose a detriment when removing my gear underwater. Not hard, just more to do. As you point out, it doesn't buy you much when getting in and out of your gear. A pony provides air away from your gear, so the extra (minimal) encumberance of the pony when doffing/donning seems more worthy, especially in a solo scenario. The long hose for me is more of a routing solution.

Nemrod's position regarding the long hose has me back considering that solution altogether though. I'm not happy with an elbow solution, but I may be able to route the hose differently and achieve the same end result (gentle bend...) without spiraling the hose around my body. I'll be giving that some consideration as time permits. I admit I settled on the Hog solution because it required no more struggling for a solution, and I stopped considering other solutions as soon as it solved my original problem. I dove in Lake Travis this weekend and tried slinging the pony on my left side but it was much more awkward than across the chest. I won't be doing that anymore.

Yes I'm long winded. As evidence, consider the following:
A regulator with a 1 in 1000 chance of failing during a single dive.
A second, similar regulator would increase the chances of a regulator failure to 2 in 1000.
The chances for both regulators failing would be 1 in 1,000,000.
Redundancy is OK by me, especially if it is easy to do and doesn't interfere excessively with the dive (I try to keep it simple). I just bought into redundancy last year (pun intended) and I never really worry much anymore while solo diving: lets me keep my mind on exploring, treasure hunting, ...).

I do not consider octopuses as redundancy, nor would I carry one soloing.

 

[veggiedog]

ANd quite hoinestly so does a quick release on the BP/wing shoulder strap as it allows you more flexibility in getting out of a BP wing without further tangling yourself.

At least that is a legitimate point "for" having a quick release.

I don't much worry about QRs coming undone or failing (contrary to most QR naysayers), but I have felt they were unnecesary for getting in and out of your gear in a normal situation, and that excuses which included inability to get in and out of the gear in general as reasons for having QRs reflected poor technique. I submit though, that in the unlikely event I need to get out of my gear in a non-standard fashion, I will cut it with shears. Unlikely to happen and the harness webbing only costs about $6 (I use nylon cargo strapping). I hear rumors that sheers will cut through solid one inch stainless bar :05:.

I am a novice climber too, and arguments against QRs along those lines are silly (uh, just clip it back...its not like a more significant failure will result in death, maybe a nuisance, but not a catastrophic failure).

 

[Snowbear]

A pony provides air away from your gear, so the extra (minimal) encumberance of the pony when doffing/donning seems more worthy, especially in a solo scenario.

I'm curious.....

I can see that *if* you happen to be on the bottom when you have to doff your gear, you can just set the pony down on the sand (or in the silt and doff in the resultant zero viz) while you're doffing and re-donning your gear and dealing with whatever problem caused the need to do so. But if you're mid-water, what do you do with the pony when you're donning and doffing your gear? (I'm guessing that since you say it's better, that you've actually tried it...)

 

[budgy]

For a solo diver rig I don't see much point in an octo or a long hose, I'm not going to donate.

 

[veggiedog]

I'm curious.....

I can see that *if* you happen to be on the bottom when you have to doff your gear, you can just set the pony down on the sand (or in the silt and doff in the resultant zero viz) while you're doffing and re-donning your gear and dealing with whatever problem caused the need to do so. But if you're mid-water, what do you do with the pony when you're donning and doffing your gear? (I'm guessing that since you say it's better, that you've actually tried it...)

In spite of my suspicions about your motivations...

I release only the bottom bolt snap when doffing my gear underwater, and I leave the pony attached to the chest d-ring. I don't ever set anything on the bottom (Lake Travis is silty). I always do this in sight of the bottom for a bouyancy reference, and I hold onto my gear by putting my left arm through the left arm loop after doffing, and I hold the bc inflator in that hand. Additionally, I never let go of the gear, and I do all of this in a vertical position. I won't (with a few rare exceptions) pee in a wetsuit: I regularly (3 times a year or so) remove my gear underwater, not just to pee, but also for the practice.

I suspect if I were to do this in open water, I would have no trouble leveraging my depth gauge instead of using the bottom for reference, but I have never needed to doff my gear in open water, and sight of the bottom is an excellent reference. I have no trouble hovering for 3 minutes at fifteen feet in open water (a newly incorporated safety step for me given a recent move closer to NDL having gone to double 80s), I feel confident I could do that doffing my gear (although I suspect I would bob about a bit, and sight of an ascent line would be icing on the cake...).